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I’m not allowed to work from home and it seriously pisses me off. Whenever I complain about this to my boss, she always gives me shit like “you’re a school bus driver”.
I am in a weird position, as a software developer, I work for a tiny company and they’re against work from home, but they’re absolutely amazing and accommodating in all other areas and I have no complaints.
So I had car issues and was able to work from home 3 days a week, but it still pisses me off that I have to go in those two days. They say it’s so we can communicate and ask for help, but mostly it’s a silent office and we can’t even wear headphones. Often I can go in and if I’m in a mood there is no communication all day long. Yet I’ve had to take a 3 hours public transport route to work (car issues) just to sit there and not talk.
I’m torn because they’re amazing in every other aspect and super understanding about my mental health issues and leaving early and making up time etc.
People will look at one aspect and say that the job sucks. Truth is, there is no perfect job and only you can tell that it balances out. The way you talk about it really feels like a nice place to work, with the exception of the headphones thing, that is weird. And if you like to chat with coworkers a full remote Job may be kinda hell, it is really easy to feel isolated and not connect with people because it takes more effort like going to audio or video calls to hangout or having to chat over text more
Exactly. I feel like a couple of the comments have come across as just leave if it isn’t 100% perfect, where I agree that no job is 100% ideal and it’s about trade offs.
As much I have lamented going to the office two days I week, I do notice on the weeks where I don’t go at all (feeling a little down or under the weather I can stay home more) that my mood dips and as much as I am introverted and love alone time, I have years of experience of being a faux extrovert and I actually need to converse with people to be happy. The worst thing for me is to be depressed and then isolate myself which makes me worse. Luckily Minecraft is a marker for me. If I find myself wanting to play Minecraft I am probably not doing well and just want to shut off and mindlessly play solo 😂
Headphones as a reasonable accommodation for a disability eg ADHD/Autism/etc might be a good option if it applies to you
If you’re a developer just get a new job. Seriously, don’t put up with it
As I said they’re incredible in other aspects and my imposter syndrome makes me worry I still dont know enough and that I don’t belong. I’m almost two years in so my plan was to wait here until I am more confident in my abilities and then begin interviewing again.
I also suck at interviews and with my ADHD I’m either coming across as weirdo, I shut down or I overshare. Seriously had like 50 interviews to get this job.
The only way to get better at something is to do it more. That includes interviewing for jobs.
This is very true. I guess it’s a me issue but in my current mental state that isn’t another anxiety I need right now, but when I am ready to move on I understand I will just have to persevere and interview more.
Sometimes there are local resources for learning the craft of resumes and interviews. Sometimes they are also free. Check with your local library, the local community college, the local social services. I would also seek counseling and medication for the anxiety. Don’t let that stuff be an excuse to hold you back. Sacrifice some money and free time now and you’ll make a lot more money later. I know this is all easier said than done, but it’s worth doing.
Thanks and I appreciate you taking the time to last some resources.
I will spend the time now to increase my chances, but I am not money orientated. If I have enough to do what I want hobbies wise I’d rather have an easier life than loads of money.
Doing interviews when you know you have nothing on the line is a good way to practice, because you don’t need to care if you do badly. Bonus is, you might end up getting an offer for something better :)
I’d grin and bear it to be honest. Perhaps try and look at it like time you won’t be spending money on utilities to warm your house and stuff like that. For perspective, though, I prefer going out to work rather than working from home, and my commute takes just over an hour each way four days a week.
Feel ya, no job is perfect. My giant employer is great about WFH for those hired as such during a particular period of time, but they’ve outsourced HR entirely to a third party - a simple inquiry becomes a three day saga, abd if I’m talking in real time to HR, voluntarily, it’s because I’ve a concern of some immediacy.
WFH plus great benefits > downsides, but it’s always a balancing act of priorities for sure.
accommodating in all other areas
have to be completely silent at work
can’t wear headphones
they don’t get mad when I’m sick
no communication all day long
don’t have targets
are you sure?
Absolutely. As I said when I had car issues, which are ongoing for almost a year now, I was able to work from home.
If I’m not in a good head space I can just log off and make up the time whenever I want. I get as much support as I ask for.
With the no targets (even if my brain doesn’t do well with that) it means I just work and never get questioned about how long something is taking.
My boss will take my neurotic nature into account when doing things. So when he took me out of the office to give me my raise after a year he messaged first to say can you come outside with me, don’t worry it’s not for anything bad.
I am being mentored and when I ask for help he will break things don’t and tell me why he made certain choices when engineering a solution.
Edit: Naturally this is my first role in this industry so I have no frame of reference.
this just sounds like the bare minimum they should do…
This strikes me as you’ve never had to work menial jobs before, as the bare minimum in the other 60 jobs I’ve had in my life is paying me money, and nothing more.
I mean I don’t know your life, but “no targets” doesn’t read “good work environment” to me, it reads “no work/life balance”
I have no other job in this industry for reference, but I will say the work life balance is I work 08:30 - 17:00 with an hour break and as many smoke (vape) breaks as I want.
Outside of those hours I am not to do anything. I’ve been told this when I’ve done bits on a Saturday because I wanted to finish something, that I should bot do that and to just do the hours I am paid for. We are encouraged to take our breaks and holidays and not work ourselves to death.
My employer is very chill and always says the client and the work is second to us as our lives matter and the work can always be done later.
Which is cool as we have some global clients that are big names. They work with us as we are chill, my boss is a genius, and we are fair. If we quote for a project we will often spend months changing that software to fit their changing needs and will not quote for more money as the way he sees it is, we get more repeat business because we are fair. If the client is taking the piss then obviously we will cut it off and re-quote, else we will just do what they want.
As a developer for 15 years: there’s no reason to put up with any bullshit in this field. They need us more than we need them. This field is mercenary as fuck.
I’ve switched jobs on average every 2 years, except for one that I went back to for a second stint and one that was just a great place to work (remote). My salary has quadrupled in those years and I’ve learned never to stick around out of fear that there isn’t something better: there always is, and if the next job isn’t the one, get another one after that (and probably another raise).
If your boss is great than you scored big. It is hard to find an understanding boss. Especially if he takes the time to mentor you. Most ppl do not have time to teach their juniors. See this as an investment for the future you. I think it sounds stupid to quit because of one reason if everything else is great. But if working from home weights more than anything else then yes you should switch.
We got the “order” to work at least at the office 2 days a week two weeks ago because the community we had has been lost. But so far have I only seen the same ppl who was at work before the “order” (I have been at work twice a week because of a project so I can tell if there is any difference) so yeah, I think most just yearn for how it was. And in the big schema of things will this only be x years or even only months of your 80-90 year old life.
I assume most are angry because they don’t get a good logical reason to why, because there are none, it is all about feelings, like community, showing customers their employees, or feeling in control because you can see and talk to ppl about what they do and if they need help. It can also be less pleasant reasons that most have already stated.
You are the only one who can make a decision for yourself. Remember that you can switch if need be.
can’t wear headphones
Wow, imagine coding without podcasts or music…
My friend likes this 3hours podcast of bunch of people in a table just chatting and talking over each other and I can’t stand It, I like a 20min podcast that has a script, is edited and transmit a coherent message. Them he told me he likes to listen like in the background while working (we are programmers) and then it all makes sense. I can’t listen to the type of podcasts that I like because I have to pay attention. Music is better I can tune out the music while focusing on writing code (and maybe reading code) but I can’t do it while I am reading documentation and researching.
Yeah it sucks. I often work with a hoodie on with hood up so might get some AirPods just to have classical music playing on low as those days in the office are tougher than the ones at home where I can blast tunes or podcasts all day.
Why no headphones? Is management a bunch of Nazis?
I have no idea tbh, on the headphones side; they’re not Nazis (I don’t think).
What if you just…wore headphones? Will security escort you put with a baton?
No but I’m sure the bosses would ask me not to do that.
You won’t be able to hear them! Problem solved.
I’ve once visited an office that was like this. Was a publisher with a big IT department. Large office room, perhaps 40-50 desks. No headphones allowed. I don’t remember the reason. I would go crazy, it was not a quiet office.
By spreading such usage of the word Nazis you’re numbing down the average person’s response to someone being called a Nazi, as it becomes a normal thing.
Save the term for people who deserve it
Like Trump
They’ll hire remote drivers from India soon enough.
I’ve traveled in India - there’s no way that would produce anything but piles of dead children. My money’s on being replaced by AI first.
The same AI that was doing those Amazon go stores?
“No, not like that!”
Why did you, why would you, ever have work email and Teams on your phone in the first place?
To prep my day. As a late shift I want to know what I am walking into rather than be anxiety ridden for my 4 hours of day light. That being said I don’t respond I just check to see what is happening
Personally, I had Slack then teams mobile for work because I didn’t mind helping outside normal work hours on one off stuff.
At my last job I managed a team of developers in India (while residing in the US). It was pretty much necessary for me to be available outside of my company’s normal work hours. I always compensated myself for middle-of-the-night activity with time off during the day and nobody ever mentioned having a problem with it. I was eventually rewarded by being laid off with everybody else when my company was acquired by a west coast tech giant.
Got me in the first half
…you shouldn’t have to respond in home hours regardless. Any time you spend on work during your life outside of contract is them stealing your labour.
I keep critical applications running at work that thousands depend on. While I was at a union convention, one of my apps broke. I had to login that day and fix it while going over the budget with other members.
This is how the IT world is. I’m the only person capable of maintaining it and I must be available if things go wrong. The show must go on.
Most IT positions are salary so this makes sense and is reasonable for critical systems. If you’re not salary, yikes.
many people who work from home have flexible work hours (they can decide if to work in the evening or morning) and so they need to be reachable at any time, even it it might be off hour
No. If they are expected to be reachable for 24 hours they need to be paid 24 for 24 hours
I have flexible hours. What it means is not that I’m reachable around the clock, but that I decide when I work and am reachable.
i wonder if this means you tell work ahead as to what time you’re reachable
Kinda. I set my office hours in outlook, so people see if I’m available. I mostly don’t actually work at unusual times. But I can, if necessary. What’s more important is that I don’t answer work calls outside my hours, unless it’s one specific co-worker or I know in advance that a certain thing may require my attention.
Either this or there are defined “core hours” where everyone must be available.
Many IT jobs require an on-call rotation. Even when not on call, an SME can be called in an emergency. Time spent on call-outs typically either pays overtime or gives comp time. The infrastructure has to keep running, that’s just how it is.
pays overtime or comp time
You’re very funny, great joke! 😭
Our boss was freaking out over people sometimes doing some private calls during work hours and at a certain point absolutely forbade it. So yeah, people would just end the call at 17:00 sharp and switch off the work phone. It took one week before that rule was rescinded.
Teamwork makes the dream work.
God, I hate how often my CEO says this
Sounds like he’s a fan of unions. Take him up on it.
And that’s ridiculous on general because you know who also does regular work hours? Everyone else!
That means if you need a call with your doctor, bank, whatever, it’s likely gonna be during the workday
This reminds me of a work-to-rule or a “White Strike.” It turns out that every company, even those that supposedly operate off of “unskilled” labor, utterly rely on employees making a ton of judgment calls and often working outside their job description. When employees start working to the letter of their job description, the whole operation quickly grinds to a halt.
“Other duties as assigned” is a bitch.
That’s what gets struck in a white strike.
If it’s literally in your job description, as it has been in my last several positions, does it qualify?
You make them assign the task to you, don’t just do it because it’s necessary. Each task that is not part of your actual assigned job needs to be assigned to you. Every time. If they want you to do it every time it’s needed, ask for them to update your job description to reflect it.
It’s called a white strike because you are burying them in paperwork, but not walking off the job.
My listed job duties are infinitely vague and I’m responsible for everything.
Bonus, you can ask for clarification on everything.
Sure. It means they can ask you to do other things that aren’t explicitly written in the original job description. But every time they tell you to do something beyond it, you just start doing THAT exactly to the letter of the request.
If everyone does it then it works.
A white strike, like all strikes works because of collective action, not because of some tricky technically lol.
Okay, you’ve assigned me a duty. Give me exact, and I mean exact, instructions about how to complete it.
Now repeat for the thousands of tiny tasks everyone just does on their own.
This is when “could you please send that request on writing via e-mail” becomes really useful.
Here we call it “standard operation” and it’s also a kind of “white strike”
Same in Brazil. It’s a most effective form of strike - you still get paid, the consultant still hemorrhages money. Another common one among public transit is when bus drivers still go around their route but don’t collect payment.
Big “thathappened” energy
It’s hilarious the reaction you’re getting. I love this story and someone out there has surely done similar but this is a fiction. I think you’re being downvoted because people really really want it to be true.
Do you have proof that this is fiction? I don’t think so. There’s no proof that it isn’t either, sure, but this sub is mainly just for laughs and the story doesn’t require being true for it to be funny.
Coming into threads and posting stuff like that is like going into malls at Christmas just to tell kids that santa isn’t real. (Or worse, since you don’t even know if you’re right in this case).
Noticeable that you seemed to have taken that comment personally, which is odd–not the intention. In any case, it sounds like a repeat of AITH on Reddit where people would post a lot of fiction and pass it off as real.
Like when your mother and I conceived you.
No one believed I was your father.
…because I wasn’t.
I always refused to put work apps on my personal phone because they would make you agree to some bullshit where they could remote access your phone or potentially wipe it. So I would refuse and say they needed to provide a company phone for me if it was that important. Most companies are either ok with this or provide a phone, except for one company. This was a software company, and literally everything else about this company was a unicorn of a job. But for some reason they wanted me to have slack on my phone and also wouldn’t give me a company phone. So I dug up an old phone, reset it to factory settings, and added slack to that so I could say I did it. Then I put the phone away and they never asked about it again. So I really don’t know what the point of that was 🤷
It’s less cognitively taxing for me if you just comply with whatever I’ve decided
Amazing
I love this.
I don’t like the font.
Would be less cognitively taxing for them if you did.
Zeitgeist material
We did it, classic
My current pet peeve is Email servers (MS Office) configured to only allow connections from outlook. I’d be happy to add an account to Aquamail but they won’t let me. So no work emails on my phone or personal laptop.
Ditto, but this is actually a bonus for me.
“Didn’t you see my email and message last evening?”
“Not until I got in today, because it came after I had logged off and I can’t see that stuff on my personal phone because, you know, IT policy.”
for some reason they wanted me to have slack
I get similar requirements from school and kindergarten nowadays. They want me to install weird apps for communications. Last school had an online portal on the web and mail. That was a no brainer but these apps?
Hello Waydroid.
Not gonna taint my own phone with this stuff. That includes WhatsApp.
Same as. Certain family members expect everyone to be on Facebook and also drink all of Zucks Kool-Aid.
I just don’t go to those family events, unless I’m personally invited. If an event only exists of Facebook, it does not exist to me.
I have 2FA apps on my phone for work. I also have the horrendous HR app for applying for Annual Leave. If they insist that I need more work-related apps on my personal phone, I will be getting a second phone and using that exclusively for work. It will be turned off when I walk out the door at the end of the day and kept in my office drawer.
I really don’t mind these days as long as they have a MDM so I can have it on a separate profile, but without that I’m totally with you.
How does the separate profile keep the company from factory resetting the whole device?
Because they can only see, install, or wipe things inside the work profile. It’s all sandboxed.
Quick edit: This is for Android. I have no idea about iPhones.
I don’t believe iPhone allows this, or at least the customers at my work don’t enable it for iOS.
I hadn’t had to set it up myself though so I wasnt sure. I would rather avoid the MDM altogether if possible.
I get it, and I don’t blame anyone for that choice. I made mine based on utility, convenience, and knowledge of the tool for me. I don’t care how convenient it makes things for work. They’ll give me a phone if it’s that convenient for them. But I’m not qualified to make that decision for anyone else.
I shot a message to a colleague who is still in IT (I’m into other shit these days) and he says you’re correct. IOS doesn’t allow for this. The IT department running Mobile Device Management would have to set up Mobile App Management (MAM) on their side. So it’s possible that they only get access to those apps without giving them access to the whole device but a lot of lazy departments won’t do it.
What’s MDM?
Mobile device management. Basically software to manage mobile devices owned by a company.
Thank you
Or work profiles on BYODs
Thank you
While I agree with you and understand that perfectly, slack doesn’t have that remote management thing, so far I’ve only seen that Microsoft apps.
Its a feature of mobile device management software. Intune for microsoft is one but theres also intelligent hub/airwatch, citrix, manageengine, etc.
The policy is you can only work from home when it benefits the company, not you.
I’m learning that the hard way. Started working for this company 2 hours from home,because I could WFH 3 days a week. Now they want me to come in 4 days a week. So I’m looking for a new job now. Which is a shame, because I do like the job.
Remote rocket ship and hiring dot cafe
.
What does your contract say? With this back to work bullshit I made sure my contract explicitly said I was remote.
Doesn’t mean they won’t change their mind but maybe I’ll get severance instead of fired for cause of they have a back to the office push.
most hires don’t get contracts
Huh? All jobs come with an employment contract.
That’s cute you believe that
My dude, we’re talking about remote work office jobs. Not some random under the table shit.
My dude, that’s exactly what I’m talking about. That’s me in fact.
Even if I had a contract it wouldn’t matter as I live in a right to work state, they can fire me at any point without warning or cause.
Having any real employment contract is NOT the norm here.
Non office jobs are more likely to be unionized and this have a contract than office jobs.
That’s the type of thing non W2 self employed contractors or union members might have to lean back on, not rank and file full time office employees.
You must not be in america. We’re lucky if we get breaks.
I’m an American and I’ve always had a contract. Even in retail. Of course the contracts are all bullshit and just a waiver of my rights.
Land of the free and all that. Free from paid healthcare, a decent public education, a strong voice in government, an impartial justice system, employee rights… With all this freedom, it’s hard to imagine wanting to be anywhere else.
Freedom to treat your employees however you want!
So if the employer suddenly decides to e.g. start paying you less, how do you prove how much your pay should be?
Someone does some digging and figures it out, and maybe five or so years later you get a check in the mail for an amount the lawyers agreed was correct.
Previous pay stubs I suppose. Depending on the employer you may have something in writing. This typically wouldn’t be contract if you’re an employee without a union.
There is nearly always a contract and the business will submit tax paperwork with your compensation to the IRS.
Under the table workers are illegal and on their own
Good tip, I’ll double check that
keep me updated!
Keep us updated!
And my axe!
We need the update more than a windows user need a rollback.
That’s an exaggeration…
The term of art in employment law is “constructive dismissal”
Removed by mod
And…? How did the story turn out?
Ol Reliable…
Man we had someone in the army do this. Army doctrine is either outdated or very accessible to the poor, I don’t fuckin know, but you aren’t required to have a phone.
So this one weird junior Joe just decided he didn’t need a phone. Got rid of it, and as a result never got the information he needed on army shit. I loved him for it, and by the law he was in the right. Can’t tell him to get a phone.
Unfortunately I was his team lead, and every time my chain of command decided to put out bullshit last minute information over text I had to tell them to suck it and pvt NoPhone wouldn’t be at their surprise formation.
Sometimes for important stuff I would have to drive to the barracks and knock on homies door to let him know there’s surprise inspections or piss tests and shit.
The workplace should operate entirely without external communication. It worked since the dawn of man, and it should continue to work until the end of man if we want any semblance of work-life balance.
If I had to guess, the reason for the lack of a phone requirement is that, if the army required everyone to have phones, the army would need to pay for them, too. I’m sure the army loves spending money on things like that.
Which you know makes sense. What if aliens invade? We need the team assembled!
pvt NoPhone
Love this bit. Gonna steal it :D
As retired Army, this is freakin’ phenomenal. I hope that dude is doing well today.
As a middle manager in a corporate hellscape, one of my few joys in life is setting logic traps for HR and making them choose between admitting company policy is bullshit or directly instructing me to violate labor laws.
if it’s the latter, just get it in writing.
That’s the goal.
Theres something enormously satisfying about asking the question “And are you willing to give me that in writing?”
Then watching them squirm as something in their brain goes full Ackbar “ITS A TRAP!”
Doing the Lord’s work there, Sonny!
I would love an example, but can accept you can’t produce one without compromising yourself.
The current argument I’m involved in is about an online platform that people can use to give recognition to each other. HR is telling me to give my team negative performance reviews for not using it regularly.
They love to remind me that there’s an app that everyone can install on their phone. The thing is, my team aren’t allowed to use their phones at work. So, the goal is to get them to tell me in writing that using this online platform is mandatory and that my hourly staff has to do it off the clock or face repercussions which is illegal.
Oh I like this one a lot.
Oh that scratches the itch.
God among men
I wouldn’t go that far. There are people on here that would call me a monster for just being middle management.
Yet you continue the struggle against the chaos of bureaucracy protecting your team. That’s a hero st the very least.
Thanks for that.
Lots of people talk crap about middle management but the Job is to protect the working class from the madness of system as best you can. That makes a good leader. I had the pleasure of working with really great managers.
Keep telling the DBAs that my company outsourced a big chunk of their tech stack to that its against company policy to work all the way on the other side of the planet, but they refuse to show up to the office.
In all of my IT jobs I would have been fired if I had signed into work accounts on my personal phone. It’s a pretty big security risk.
Eh, it doesn’t need to be, you just need to do the work of putting together granular access controls that can account for your risk profiles.
The risk isn’t much different between a company owned telephone and a personal telephone.
They’re both susceptible to most of the same attacks, or being left on the bus.Most companies seem to have don’t ask, don’t tell policies in place.
Technically we’re not allowed to use Teams on our phones, but most of us do, including management.
I’m also technically not allowed to use Spotify on my laptop, but if they’d enforce that ban, IT would be gone tomorrow.
True, but in small companies it’s not uncommon.
I was at a subsidiary of a very large company and had work slack, email, and all my code on my phone, without even the thing that lets them remote wipe your phone.
It has to do with culture and willingness to put in the effort by the security organization
Get hit with one ransom ware attack and that shit’ll pivot 180.
Yeah, or even just budget cuts. I am sure it’s cheaper to just lock it down.
Not exclusive to IT; I had to weigh the benefits of continuing to work as a caregiver for a small company, versus working in retail for a massive chain (which translates to fantastic insurance benefits.)
Sadly not a competition.
Unless it’s 24h gold service with 24k gold pay, the work phone gets turned off at the end of office hours.
There are places that pay well for on call though.
Sounds kinky.
In my current job the old manager okayed working on our own devices.
I would use my personal workstation to ssh into and do work on my work mac, did that for a few years. saved me disassembling my desk between uses every day or buying a costly KVM.
They seem to be getting a lot more uptight about security these days (although the “you can work on personal devices” rule hasnt been explicitly rescinded) so i have stopped interaction between my personal devices and work devices.
Having a M2 mac recently makes it easier, i can lie in bed and work pretty much all day on a single charge so my desk remains intact
I remote into my work laptop too, but I don’t have any work data on my personal devices. And, my desktop is more secure than my work laptop.
While true, most enterprises have ways to silo and encrypt their data on non company controlled devices.
Android does something like that when you install ms office apps with administrator controlled policies
Fuck their data, what about my own? That pest of an app is not getting onto my device. And neither is anything else that gives an employer any control over my device.
A totally reasonable stance.
For clarity, the android feature essentially makes a work dedicated partition on the phone. Their management app can manage that partition, and for the purposes of data movement it’s essentially a distinct phone.
If they’ve set it up correctly they can do a remote wipe without touching your personal data.In a lot of cases the drive to have users use their personal devices rather than employer owned ones comes from the users, not the workplace. Only needing to keep track of one device is easier in many cases.
My policy as well. Non-negotiable hard no. But I’m fortunate enough to have at least some choice with regard to employment.
That happened
I did it.
best thing that ever happened. now I get to wfh and I still refuse to answer calls from my boss after hours.
if it’s important have opsgenie call me, that way I can report I responded to 200 calls over the last year because some dumbass tripped over an Ethernet cable and my boss refuses to push the issue with infrastructure.
it’s a win win. I get yearly raises, he gets to keep his mouth shut and not “rock the boat”.
Did what?
your mom.
wtf do you think?
Fuck
, judging from the other comments.
