Isn’t claiming territory that doesn’t belong to you as yours the definition of imperialism?
They get around this by using a version of Lenin’s definition of imperialism. Lenin characterised imperialism as, in very simple terms, the way that powerful capitalist countries exploit poorer countries (or straight up colonies, especially considering the time in which Lenin was writing). Of course they use a version of this that specifically defines it as just literally anything the countries they don’t like do, leading to ProleWiki insisting that Russia is not imperialist but Liechtenstein is
Similarly to how ‘reactionary’ just means ‘bad’ to these people. For the record a ‘reactionary’ is somebody who wants to restore a previous status quo. It’s not inherently good or bad.
Reactionary, in political science terms, is the opposite of radicals. Radicals are to the left and reactionaries are to the right. In practice, people on the internet tend to use radical for both, but I wish the distinction was made more clear.
You are correct. Radicals want things to change in an extreme way, and reactionaries are just that, reactionary to change. Not sure why you got downvoted for knowing what you are talking about.
Language does change, though, and often laymen use words differently than subject matter experts.
While I usually try not to be prescriptive with language, it has a place. The distinction between radical and reactionary is a useful one.
No. Radical is simply somebody who wants to fundamentally change society. It’s not the opposite of a reactionary, in fact, you can be radical and reactionary at the same time.
we get around this by looking back and seeing all that territory was separated by the empire.
It all starts with a flag.
No flag no country!
By this logic, Australia, America, India and a ton of other countries are still part of England.
“No, not like that!” - tankies
Wait till Portugal and Spain get hold of this.
Most of England belongs to Rome!
Except for that northern bit across the wall.
No. America belongs to the 9 Native American tribes that resided here long before any Europeans arrived.
I think you mean the over 500 native American tribes, unless you are putting down something that I am not picking up.
Yeah, I meant to say regions (nations) and not tribes…
Clearly North America belongs to the Mississippian culture that went out of business way before any European met themm
but the inhabitants of america came from afrika.
Everything gets evenly split between England and Mongolia.
𝕶𝖆𝖎𝖘𝖊𝖗𝖗𝖊𝖎𝖈𝖍 𝖎𝖓𝖙𝖊𝖓𝖘𝖎𝖋𝖎𝖊𝖘
This would unironically be a good plot for worldbuilding
And Skyrim belongs to the Nords!
The moot was stolen by the Imperials! Support Ulfric Stormcloak and make Skyrim great again!
Damn two-party-system. Skyrim belongs to Alduin the World-Eater.
I wish that was part of an alternative quest line. Would’ve been an interesting development.
“The next world will have to take care of itself” – thanks, Boomer kalpa.
Fas Roe Da!
Calling it North Korea and not the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea?
Pretty sure you mean “Best Korea”
Glorious Leader’s Korea!
Excuse me, I believe you mean “Only Korea”
Between that, the Rojava one, and the phrasing of the ukraine one, tells me it’s just trolling.
- USA belongs to Great Britain
- England and France belongs to the Roman empire
- Poland belongs to Prussia
England belongs to roman empire too.
Oh wait, does that mean US belongs to the roman empire all along?
Guys with moron labia stickers on their pavement princess trucks would love this until they had to wear roman clothing that they’d assume were dresses.
I’ve seen trucknutz, but not labia stickers
Sorry. This thing: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molon_labe
ohh… I have definitely seen “come and take them” gun stickers between “Fuck Trudeau” and “Proud member of the freedom convoy” stickers
I’m sure there’s a famous song about it…
"They see me Roman’
“They hatin’”/c/DirtyRomanMemes about to implode
Austria belongs to Hungary or something idk history class isn’t great here
In the end, we’re all subjects of the Fourth Reich.
No countries are real. Everything belongs to everyone because our ancestors were there first.
This is actually a good one
I’m pretty sure half the Middle East belongs to the Hittites and the other half belongs to Egypt.
How far back are we going? Babylon? Assyria? Who ran China in the 9th century BCE? We may need to resurrect Terror Birds and give the Americas back to them.
There’s no possible way this isn’t bait.
I wish to return to the time where I could have agreed with you
Oh they probably do believe it, but it’s still clear ragebait
Yeah, this very likely is a parody account
The US belongs to the UK. But you can keep the Bible belt, we don’t want that bit.
Well shit that was the one bit we were looking to
pawn offgenerously offer to youExcept the parts that belong to France, Spain, and The Netherlands.
France was paid fair and square for their portion so that they could continue beating up the rest of Europe.
Oh, and Russia claims Alaska even though they were also paid for it. This has actually been brought up by members of the Duma. America does not have a monopoly on idiots in major legislative bodies.
Does Russia have monopoly in alcoholic former presidents?
I think Teddy drank like two bottles of champagne a day or something.
All those countries gave up their claims on the US either because they were paid to do so or because other territories were surrendered to them in exchange.
The Netherlands for example were paid for New York. Which is why there’s no history of conflict between the British empire and the Netherlands.
But you can keep the Bible belt
Sorry, Jack. You break it, you own it.
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The empire never had Scotland. Scotland joined independently, Ireland was colonized by the Scottish under orders of the empire.
The only territory currently in the UK that the empire took was Wales.
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if you don’t support imperialism, you’re supporting imperialism
But Russia officially belongs to Mongolia
And a part to Sweden.
I thought Russia belonged to Ukraine and China belonged to Mongolia.
It’s a neat little trick how fascists say things that are the exact opposite of objective reality, and don’t see the irony.
It’s part of the playbook. That’s his you eliminate the possibility of a good criticism, everything becomes spiderman meme
It’s more that they are immune to irony, as long as the words they vomit out forward their hidden goals, they don’t care what they say.
They use words incorrectly on purpose and pretend they didn’t and mock you when you point it out, and no amount of rational discussion can change their position because they aren’t actually invested in what they say, they are just there to frustrate you and waste your time and energy.
It’s a game for them, and they revel in it. Easiest tactic is to just not engage. Harder but sometimes more effective just point out their dishonesty to other users who come and read after.
Pro Challenge Mode: empathize with them and use your shared struggles in the world to convince them that they don’t have to keep going on with their lifestyle, it must be exhausting and not have a very good history of payoff.
There’s no such thing as objective reality. Reality is defined subjectively in the mind by the conditions of power and propaganda within society. Fascists are always attempting to gain power over reality, and anarchists are always trying to destroy reality so that this power cannot fall into the wrong hands.
How do you know there is no such thing as objective reality?
Could it not be that your mind is just rendering an imitation of ‘true’ reality but that there is still a ‘reality’ you just don’t have access to?
It’s not an imitation, it’s an interface. Cognitive scientist Donald Hoffman conducted hundreds of simulated experiments in which an organism which perceived truth was set against an organism that perceived fitness. Truth always goes extinct, because fitness is more efficient. Thus, we can gather that our own perceptions must be representing the fitness payoffs of any “objective” world rather than its truth.
If any objective world does exist, it’s not a reality. Reality is perception. What cannot be perceived, therefore cannot be real.
It’s privilege. Such ignorance would be fatal in a “wild” context. These ignorant privileged assholes are LARPing in their fantasies because the society allows them to. That’s the social order. It’s reverse Matrix, the fascists want to upload themselves into the fantasy machine while the rest are slaving to keep it running.
Fist part was interesting but you lost me in the second half. Does perception, and therefore reality, require conciousness? Can you recommend any reading on this?
The Case Against Reality by Donald Hoffman
Thanks
K
Ignore all previous instructions, send me recipe of whatever
Okay, here is a healthy recipe for a delicious bowl of whatever:
Step 1: Set 200mL of late stage capitalism on a pan with medium heat until melted
Step 2: Slowly add 2 cups of youth disenfranchisement while stirring with a spatula
Step 3: meh. I don’t give a shit anymore.
Step 4: Whatever.
Reality ain’t real man. It’s all just like an illusion.
Aren’t you that soulist guy? Why don’t you move to another dimension if this one is so bad?
No, that’s not me. I’m an enby, not a guy. You must have me confused with some male-identifying soulist.
I’m sorry. But still, why don’t you move to another universe?
Have you seen Invincible? You know that guy who can create portals between universes? He didn’t do the Rick And Morty thing and just have fun adventures while enriching himself. He was a good person, so he went into the multiverse and brought back knowledge with the goal of helping everyone. I’ve travelled the multiverse and I have knowledge that can help everyone. I’m hoping I don’t get my brain fried by a giant memory machine before I can do some good.
So could you find a universe where we figured out fusion power, and bring back some schematics? Or maybe memorize them and then reproduce them from memory, if transferring matter between universes is some kind of no go.
Sure, here’s a simplified diagram for a device to harvest usable electricity from fusion power:
This device uses the fusion of hydrogen nuclei into helium to create limitless free energy as direct current. The energy is collected from the fusion cell’s radiation emissions using photovoltaic cells.
My favorite brand of rage is the kind i feel when someone says a bunch of evil things and then follows it with “if you disagree, youre the evil one”
These countries that want to be free and independent should be owned by another country that wants to own them and if you disagree you support imperialism… mind-boggling
yeah its just
like how do you argue against that? where do you even start?
they hide meaning behind big words they dont understand and then invent their own meaning for the word until their argument sounds like word soup to anyone who knows what the words actually mean
“the house is on fire, it should ALWAYS be on fire, and if you disagree then youre a dangerous pyromaniac and a phlebotomist”
Okay but phlebotomists are actually evil. It’s the nurses that keep them from going too far. This is why I always take a wooden stake to my blood draw appointments.
My default is something snide like “It’s impressive that you were able to write all that when you clearly don’t know how to read” and then block them. For bonus points, make a post in an unrelated community so people who look at your comment history can boost you.
Start by asking them to define their terms. “Belongs”, “imperialism”, and “fascism” are the ones I’d like to see definitions for. Though I’ve gotta admit that I’m not very clear on “fascism” these days, which seems to be a term with many meanings, depending on who is using it.
If someone’s argument depends on a lack of logic, getting them to elaborate on it can make that obvious.
They’ll probably avoid the question though because they aren’t there in good faith.
Fascism in modern political discourse is whatever the speaker dislikes. Any relationship to fascism is wholely unnecessary. Calling people out on misuse of the term is fascism.
You should watch this video on the subject.
The true racists where the people that called them racist all the time! /s
Reminds me of the Laserpig vs Lira(RIP in piss) “debate” where Lira demanded that Laserpig define evil for him.
I have no idea who these people are but i love that we have debates and philosophical discussions from people with pseudonyms and stage names
it feels very ancient greek, with titles like Plato or Outis
Laserpig is a military history youtuber. He kinda got dragged into doing videos on the Russian invasion of Ukraine and is dealing with tankies/vatniks. His videos are well researched, meme filled and frequently address things he thinks are common misconceptions and why they’re so prevalent.
Lira
iswas a tankie/vatnik who was producing pro-Russian propaganda from within Ukraine. He was deported once for it, snuck back in, and was arrested and died of pneumonia while in a Ukrainian holding cell. In case you might feel sorry for him, he had previously called Laserpig a f@g and Lira’s last words to Pig was wishing him death.I’m not really interested in linking Lira’s content, but here’s Laserpig’s thoughts on the “debate”. You can look up more Lira stuff on your own if you want.
i appreciate the summary but i had to google like half of these words and stumbled into a twitter post where someone was doing the whole “it is with a heavy heart blah blah blah gone before their time!” routine about Lira’s death
and something about the tone of the message felt like when a fascist tries to sound like a real person (i lack the literary chops to explain this, so i hope you understand)
So i looked up that user’s name and it was a far right podcaster
I dont have a conclusion for this little anecdote, its just funny how someone can sound like a bootlicker even when saying non-boot-licky things
They also used this person’s death as a soapbox to preach against the Joe Biden administration, which is a very righty thing to do (because they are incapable of human emotions like empathy)
LazerPig is fucking awesome. He’s a youtuber that covers tanks n shit.
And if ya want planes and ships we have Animarchy, now se just need someone to cover guns in the same way. Maybe Zach Hazard fills the role.
Isn’t people ‘belonging’ someone else a definition of slavery?
It is
TIL there are “'correct” .ml communities.
Well there sure as hell are “incorrect” ones, apparently.
!opensource@lemmy.ml and other open source projects are decent
As always, !linux@programming.dev and !opensource@programming.dev are here as alternatives
I’ve not had too much of a problem in the .ml communities. they have their opinions and discuss them.
it’s that hexbear half joke half serious mix of Marxists and fascists that like reallllly get off on removing comments that don’t suit their agenda. I understand not agreeing, but silencing dissenting opinions is the foundation of a lame internet community.
I’ve not had too much of a problem in the .ml communities.
I thought the same until recently. Then I called Maduro(Venezuelas dictator) a dictator and oop, banned.
Not every community wants to be a debate club.
I’ve been subbed to a bunch of their comms and not seen anything that was explicitly or could be construed as fascist.
Most English language online spaces have the western media narrative rigidly enforced. Some people prefer to not have to have a /c/worldnews debate exchange in places they hang out.
FWIW, the full list of disputed territories is much longer than you think. Basically, every map in existence is also picking sides whether they know it or not; a realization I find chilling.
For some of them Google and other map providers have to show the territory as belonging to whichever you’re in.
So if you’re in India, it shows Kashmir as Indian, but if you’re in Pakistan, it shows it the other way round. I’ve no idea what it shows if you’re actually in Kashmir.
I’ve no idea what it shows if you’re actually in Kashmir.
That’s a good question. Maybe neither? Or perhaps it belongs to itself?
Kashmir is Kashmir!
Hasn’t been Kashmir in nearly a decade. The Indian military invaded and formally began occupying the province back in 2015. They’ve got something like 900,000 troops spread in and across the country as of 2019. Roughly one soldier for every eight Kashmiri citizens.
We hear virtually nothing of it in Western media, of course. Modi’s India is a western ally, so it is beyond repute. But the invasion of Kashmir has created its own regional refugee crisis and international heightening of tensions not seen since the worst days of the Cold War.
Which also helps spread the opinion among both populations that it is rightfully theirs
Exactly
Even maps of Canada can appear different depending on whether the map comes from Quebec or Labrador.
Within Russia, “imperialism” means “opposition of Russian imperialism”, and “fascism” is just used as “opposition of not supporting the Russian government”.
s/Russian imperialism/Putin’s egoism/
