As they should… What’s the alternative here? Let the company’s schedule be determined by sporadic PTO usage that they are expected to have no control over?
I’m happy that in my country we have employment laws and shit like this wouldn’t fly. I put in PTO requests to use my 25 days paid leave they’re always accepted because I don’t work for fucking ghouls.
My company understands that I provide my skills and time in exchange for money and they’re not more important than the individuals that work there. They also realise that a good work life balance is better for employee retention and happiness, meaning that you can keep your best staff and they don’t leave for somewhere that treats you better.
Employment laws don’t protect you from a boss denying PTO because you are needed on that specific date. Imagine having a 24hr devops team. Three guys went drinking together and crashed into a tree last night. They’re fine, but they need checkups and rest, so they have a doctors note. The team now needs to be planned well, but otherwise it is fine. Then someone comes up and says “I need PTO this week”. You tell them “sorry we can’t, too many people are out, we couldn’t get round the clock support like we have in the contract”. And then they leave anyways. And when they leave, the prod suddenly shits itself and there is noone who is there to react for the next 7 hours.
Work life balance doesn’t mean “I get to grab PTO whenever I want to”. That’s why “on demand” days exist.
Three guys went drinking together and crashed into a tree last night
Okay…
fine. Then someone comes up and says “I need PTO this week”. You tell them “sorry we can’t, too many people are out, we couldn’t get round the clock support like we have in the contract”.
Ok. That’s the companies problems, not the employee requesting PTO
then they leave anyways. And when they leave, the prod suddenly shits itself and there is noone who is there to react for the next 7 hours.
Alright so, here’s my read:
This hypothetical company agreed to providing 24 hour support, then only staffed 4 people in the same geographic area capable of providing that support.
To me this reads like an organization that was fundamentally incapable of providing the product they’re advertising in the first place without abusing their employees
How is it insane? There are millions of situations where missing teammembers might happen. The flu, holiday season, furry convention. You usually plan for it, but no matter what you do, you can’t plan for everything. Then having someone just not come in means you cannot do what the contract requires.
Getting fired for being denied PTO and then ignoring that and still going is normal. If you can’t plan for shit and people can’t get PTO ever, then it’s a you problem.
You do have to give notice for PTO in my country, normally 4 weeks. Although my boss will generallly let me give a weeks notice.
If we’re sick then we just don’t turn in and let them know we’re sick and still get paid.
Edit: To clarify anything that impacts the business outside of these requirements is bad planning or cost cutting on the owners side and not my problem.
What’s the alternative here? Let the company’s schedule be determined by sporadic PTO usage that they are expected to have no control over?
Yeah, that’s the idea. You give me time off, and you prepare around the dates I give you.
Or I’ll find an employer that respects me as a person, and I’ll quit by ust not showing up anymore because fuck you for denying my PTO request. Don’t disrespect me while also telling me that you can’t survive without me. You’re just telling me that I can ruin things for you by leaving without notice, and giving me the motive to do it.
The alternative is not failing the logistics skill check you’re ostensibly supposed to be good at as a manager. If you’re in such dire straits as a business that you cannot possibly approve PTO, your problem will not be fixed firing the employee who at least did you the courtesy of warning you that they wouldn’t be available that day.
That’s literally what a manager’s job is. To manage the personnel so that they have a full staff. That’s why we put in time off notices two months in advance, at least.
Oh, and if you aren’t paying well above market rate, a time off notice is just that. I’m not requesting shit. I’m notifying you that no matter what you do, I won’t be there, and you need to do your job.
What if the employee didn’t get PTO, what if they were in an accident and needed two weeks in the hospital to recover? The company would have no control over that either, but that’s always a contingency. If you can’t handle one less employee, you need more employees.
The alternative is working with your employees to get them the time off they need to the best of your ability instead of hiding behind “the needs of the business”. They don’t give a flying fuck about the needs of your business, especially if you don’t give a fuck about them enough to approve a day off request.
Any time I’ve EVER had trouble accommodating a time off request, I’ve done it in person and it started with me trying to figure out what their time is for so I can work with them on finding a way to accommodate their plans. Or, if it is clear that person 1 must be off, then I can talk to person 2 or 3 with requests and work out a deal with them instead.
Instead of any of this, sounds like this terrible manager simply denied the request in the schedule with no conversation and KNOWS he’s a dick, given the “keep frontin’” comment.
As they should… What’s the alternative here? Let the company’s schedule be determined by sporadic PTO usage that they are expected to have no control over?
How do those boots taste? Jesus Christ!
I’m happy that in my country we have employment laws and shit like this wouldn’t fly. I put in PTO requests to use my 25 days paid leave they’re always accepted because I don’t work for fucking ghouls.
My company understands that I provide my skills and time in exchange for money and they’re not more important than the individuals that work there. They also realise that a good work life balance is better for employee retention and happiness, meaning that you can keep your best staff and they don’t leave for somewhere that treats you better.
Employment laws don’t protect you from a boss denying PTO because you are needed on that specific date. Imagine having a 24hr devops team. Three guys went drinking together and crashed into a tree last night. They’re fine, but they need checkups and rest, so they have a doctors note. The team now needs to be planned well, but otherwise it is fine. Then someone comes up and says “I need PTO this week”. You tell them “sorry we can’t, too many people are out, we couldn’t get round the clock support like we have in the contract”. And then they leave anyways. And when they leave, the prod suddenly shits itself and there is noone who is there to react for the next 7 hours.
Work life balance doesn’t mean “I get to grab PTO whenever I want to”. That’s why “on demand” days exist.
Okay…
Okay…
Ok. That’s the companies problems, not the employee requesting PTO
Alright so, here’s my read:
This hypothetical company agreed to providing 24 hour support, then only staffed 4 people in the same geographic area capable of providing that support.
To me this reads like an organization that was fundamentally incapable of providing the product they’re advertising in the first place without abusing their employees
What an absolutely insane hypothetical you had to come up with, just to slide your tongue across the muddy sole of a boot.
How is it insane? There are millions of situations where missing teammembers might happen. The flu, holiday season, furry convention. You usually plan for it, but no matter what you do, you can’t plan for everything. Then having someone just not come in means you cannot do what the contract requires.
Getting fired for being denied PTO and then ignoring that and still going is normal. If you can’t plan for shit and people can’t get PTO ever, then it’s a you problem.
You do have to give notice for PTO in my country, normally 4 weeks. Although my boss will generallly let me give a weeks notice.
If we’re sick then we just don’t turn in and let them know we’re sick and still get paid.
Edit: To clarify anything that impacts the business outside of these requirements is bad planning or cost cutting on the owners side and not my problem.
Here you don’t. All you need is to do it in advance.
Yeah, that’s the idea. You give me time off, and you prepare around the dates I give you.
Or I’ll find an employer that respects me as a person, and I’ll quit by ust not showing up anymore because fuck you for denying my PTO request. Don’t disrespect me while also telling me that you can’t survive without me. You’re just telling me that I can ruin things for you by leaving without notice, and giving me the motive to do it.
The alternative is not failing the logistics skill check you’re ostensibly supposed to be good at as a manager. If you’re in such dire straits as a business that you cannot possibly approve PTO, your problem will not be fixed firing the employee who at least did you the courtesy of warning you that they wouldn’t be available that day.
That’s literally what a manager’s job is. To manage the personnel so that they have a full staff. That’s why we put in time off notices two months in advance, at least.
Oh, and if you aren’t paying well above market rate, a time off notice is just that. I’m not requesting shit. I’m notifying you that no matter what you do, I won’t be there, and you need to do your job.
What if the employee didn’t get PTO, what if they were in an accident and needed two weeks in the hospital to recover? The company would have no control over that either, but that’s always a contingency. If you can’t handle one less employee, you need more employees.
If a business can’t function when a single employee goes off on leave then it doesn’t deserve to survive. Survival of the fittest, innit?
The alternative is granting leave, are you that dumb?
The alternative is working with your employees to get them the time off they need to the best of your ability instead of hiding behind “the needs of the business”. They don’t give a flying fuck about the needs of your business, especially if you don’t give a fuck about them enough to approve a day off request.
Any time I’ve EVER had trouble accommodating a time off request, I’ve done it in person and it started with me trying to figure out what their time is for so I can work with them on finding a way to accommodate their plans. Or, if it is clear that person 1 must be off, then I can talk to person 2 or 3 with requests and work out a deal with them instead.
Instead of any of this, sounds like this terrible manager simply denied the request in the schedule with no conversation and KNOWS he’s a dick, given the “keep frontin’” comment.