Well they sure as fuck shouldn’t be capitulating to the fascists
I would expect that someone who really thinks we’re at the end of democracy would be (at the very least) breaking decorum to derail the fascism machine before it picks up steam, not censuring their own colleagues for loudly defending what they all presumably believe in.
“What else could they possibly be doing?!” they cry, as ICE agents are pushing legal permanent residents into black vans and flying them to a prison in El Salvador for exercising their 1st amendment rights.
As incredibly frustrated as I am by ICE, when they’re operating with the efficiency and speed of burglars, even politicians can’t stop them. Judges have slowed them down - preventing deportation to outside prisons and requiring lawyer visitation.
I do believe that raising voices about the abductions, and making sure as many people as possible see the fear in the video from Rumeysa as she’s taken, makes a difference in broad opinion and that’s critical.
I have no forgiveness for the votes to censure Greene. For what it matters, it didn’t do much to him. On the CR; I can formulate a very long argument why allowing it through was a reasonable decision made in a no-win situation, not a capitulation. To be fair, I could MAKE the argument - not agree with it. That comment about judges and courts was a huge part of it.
I’d have more respect for your argument if you had something constructive to suggest, rather than simply asserting what you stand against. Destroying is much easier than building.
I’d have more respect for your argument if you had something constructive to suggest, rather than simply asserting what you stand against.
I’ve made several.
The truth is that the Democrats have plenty of options in at least slowing down the rapid growth, but dismiss them out-of-hand simply because they break decorum. Booker just did a 25 hour filibuster (which is awesome), but he wasn’t even filibustering a bill. Democrats only seem to want to break decorum when the stakes are low enough not to piss off republican lawmakers, and that’s a huge problem when those lawmakers DGAF about democrat reactions and break the law anyway.
This is the time to be raising the alarm and making noise (remember when libs were whining that 16 months before an election was ‘not the time’ to be protesting democrats?). I don’t care about the occasional good thing the dems do in opposition to fascism, I care about all the things they’re not doing. They’re still acting as if there will still be elections, even though they spent the last 2 years screaming that there won’t be any more if trump wins.
At some point they have to start behaving like they actually believe what they’ve been trying to convince the rest of us of.
you still aren’t making any actual proposals for what they should be doing
Because what you’re looking for is some kind of policy proposal or voting strategy to stop a fascist movement, and I’m telling you that we’re beyond that.
Democrats should be physically impeding the dismantling of our institutions - that means disrupting the normal proceedings of congress and the legislature in order to raise the alarm, or at the very least not punishing the members of the party who are, and not breaking the line to side with the republicans when it actually matters (Schumer is the fucking minority leader, not some random spoiler).
When the strategy of the minority leader of the senate is to cooperate with the republicans in tearing apart the government in the hopes that voters blame them for a dip in the stock market 2 years from now and vote them out, it tells their constituents that they don’t really believe we’re witnessing the end of democracy. One of the top 2028 presidential contenders welcomed a white nationalist onto his podcast to talk about the ‘real concerns’ with transgender participation in sports. The DNC chair is out in public soliciting donations from “the good billionaires” while the base is setting records rallying against oligarchy.
The democratic party would rather collaborate with the reactionaries in the conservative party than recon with the growing populism in their own base, and that’s the entire-fucking point.
Yes, when the entire party of over 150 fails to represent the people who elected them because of 10 traitors then that counts as a L for the whole party.
They need to stop letting Republicans into the Democratic party if they want cohesion.
So why have a democratic party if they are randomly going to break ranks to enable fascism.
Literally any time a bill comes along that will make regular people’s lives worse for the rich to benefit conveniently there’s always enough dem traitors to get it passed.
The party that’s mostly against fascism still is a party that’s is not against fascism. It’s against it in optics only, when at critical juncture after juncture it makes the decisions that enable or even help the fascists. There were so many things these dumb fucks could have done. Some people even from the party itself were screaming the solutions. At this point the only hope I see is the Bernie/AOC program. The Democratic party, as currently formulated, governed and funded has demonstrated that it can’t resist fascism. You have to do anything in your power to elect enough socialist independent reps that vote with Bernie/AOC’s agenda and hold the balance of power. And organize unions. Otherwise the Democrats will win again by default, do nothing material of substance and pave the way for the next wave of fascism to sweep power.
Two thirds of Americans thought Kamala was too far left. The idea that we will see hundreds of socialists elected to Congress, which is more than have been elected to anything in this country, is ridiculous.
People support Bernie and AOC because they are willing to stand up and fight. Not because they’re socialists.
A Nazi sit down at a table with 10 others, and nobody leaves. How many Nazis are now sat at the table?
The Democrats should whip their members harder instead of giving members ‘outs’ that makes the party as whole look uncommitted - Pelosi managed to do it for years, even with those ‘pesky progressives’.
Use the billion dollars of DNC leverage and lean on them - just like Elon’s unlimited money has openly threatened to primary anyone “disloyal” on the right.
I’m not the person you were talking with, I’m someone random passing through the thread. I’m just so fucking sick of the republicans being the “make shit worse party” and the democrats being the “do nothing” party and never having fucking anything improve. I’m so fucking sick of voting for people who aren’t going to help people. I’m sick of nothing being done. And, what I’m REALLY REALLY FUCKING SICK OF IS PEOPLE DEFENDING THEM DOING NOTHING TO HELP. I’m not a fucking politician, I’m a regular dickwad on the internet like anyone else, I don’t know what fucking specific actions they should be taking, I don’t know how to improve things, THAT’S WHAT WE FUCKING HAVE ELECTED REPRESENTATIVES FOR.
What makes it fucking worse. I donated to bernie in 2016. Since then, my contact info has been spread like an STD and I get all these fucking fundraising emails, texts, and calls, from these fucking democrat assholes. “Give me money so I can fix things :)” Like my FUCKING god we had a democrat president, and majority in the senate and house and still nothing was fucking done to improve things. For the love of GOD stop begging me for money so you can sit on your goddamn asses and do nothing.
I’m sorry, I didn’t mean to blow up at you, I hope you can understand my fucking frustration.
No, I can’t. Because you’re factually incorrect. They’re not “doing nothing.” They’re doing what they can as the minority in a majoritarian legislature - which isn’t a whole goddamned lot, but blaming them for not being able to effectively stop a majority is not exactly their fault.
And in the 117th Congress, they poured billions into the public coffers to deal with the economic devastation during COVID, they enshrined marriage equality into law, they expanded hate crime law. They tried for more, but undivided opposition from the Republicans, the clear political motivation of the Supreme Court and the unreliability of their slime majority hindered them. Blaming the whole of the Democratic Party is just not warranted.
I love how, in the same thread, you credit Republican opposition with stopping the Democratic agenda and then claim that Democrats are powerless to do the same.
Why are they powerless?
***Because they’re voting with Republicans and helping them steamroll us when they get a chance to withhold their votes and draw concessions or filibuster, which yes, is something they deserve full credit for doing as a party. ***
Because Republicans vote in lockstep but Democrats don’t. It was not some commentary on the ontological natures of the two parties, it’s just the reality of the two. Republican voters punish their politicians for not abasing themselves before Trump, Democratic voters reward candidates for breaking ranks.
Replace Schumer and Jeffries as congressional leaders, and make it publicly known it’s because of capitulation to fascism.
Filibuster every fucking thing. Zero legislative victories, no matter how minor.
Dredge up every scandal against every Republican, go on every podcast and every news show and put them on blast. Make sure there are a personal and professional consequences for supporting fascism.
They are not powerless. They just have to fight dirty, which they should damn well be willing to do after watching the government get plundered for the last three months.
But I don’t think they are unaware of these methods or unwilling to play dirty. I think that’s just a cover. I’m convinced they simply don’t want to do any of that because on the whole, their donors are either okay with the fascist agenda and/or believe they can get back in power by default because of Trump’s fuckups. Thereby going back to business as usual without promising any significant concessions to their voters. E.g. none of that Medicare for all shit. After two years of the fascists people would be happy to lap up anything that looks even remotely better. See how happy Booker’s performance made people. It’s something and people will take it over nothing.
He’s making wild power grabs by EO because they’re not being challenged - outside some judges blocking the most egregious overreaches.
Congress has the lion’s share of the government power - the purse string - if they choose to use it. Nothing moves or happens without money in America.
It’s even worse than that. Democrats forced a 15-day vote against Trump’s emergency executive order. The Republicans in Congress redefined the entire congressional calendar as a single day, just to avoid holding the vote. Every last Republican in Congress is complicit.
Source? I can’t find anything linking the legislative schedule to a snap change, just dry press releases of ‘here’s the planned calendar’ and official announcements.
Each day for the remainder of the first session of the 119th Congress shall not constitute a calendar day for purposes of section 202 of the National Emergencies Act with respect to a joint resolution terminating a national emergency declared by the President on February 1, 2025
7 bills have passed the Senate, one has been signed into law:
Congress.gov search
(note: the filter doesn’t include bills starting in the House, but there aren’t any relevant ones)
Also, the “Protection of Women and Girls in Sports Act of 2025” and “Born-Alive Abortion Survivors Protection Act” were “filibustered” (failed to reach cloture).
I would have liked them to push on how Trump and a bunch of other republicans are not eligible for office because of the insurrection. Go for blood. Refuse to acknowledge that that these people hold office.
No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice-President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any State, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any State legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any State, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. But Congress may by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability.
Calling him a traitor on the campaign trail isn’t the same as actually enforcing the law, at gunpoint if need be. Laws don’t matter if they’re not enforced. They should be physically removing the republicans from office.
I want republicans dead. That’s not really practical but that’s what I want. Every republican up against the wall. The big players can get a guillotine.
More practically? Probably impeachment proceedings, noncompliance, fillibuster, malicious compliance, push hard to the left and sell people on a future that’s not climate collapse and wage slavery.
Okay then, I repeat: what should they be doing?
Well they sure as fuck shouldn’t be capitulating to the fascists
I would expect that someone who really thinks we’re at the end of democracy would be (at the very least) breaking decorum to derail the fascism machine before it picks up steam, not censuring their own colleagues for loudly defending what they all presumably believe in.
“What else could they possibly be doing?!” they cry, as ICE agents are pushing legal permanent residents into black vans and flying them to a prison in El Salvador for exercising their 1st amendment rights.
As incredibly frustrated as I am by ICE, when they’re operating with the efficiency and speed of burglars, even politicians can’t stop them. Judges have slowed them down - preventing deportation to outside prisons and requiring lawyer visitation.
I do believe that raising voices about the abductions, and making sure as many people as possible see the fear in the video from Rumeysa as she’s taken, makes a difference in broad opinion and that’s critical.
I have no forgiveness for the votes to censure Greene. For what it matters, it didn’t do much to him. On the CR; I can formulate a very long argument why allowing it through was a reasonable decision made in a no-win situation, not a capitulation. To be fair, I could MAKE the argument - not agree with it. That comment about judges and courts was a huge part of it.
I’d have more respect for your argument if you had something constructive to suggest, rather than simply asserting what you stand against. Destroying is much easier than building.
I’ve made several.
The truth is that the Democrats have plenty of options in at least slowing down the rapid growth, but dismiss them out-of-hand simply because they break decorum. Booker just did a 25 hour filibuster (which is awesome), but he wasn’t even filibustering a bill. Democrats only seem to want to break decorum when the stakes are low enough not to piss off republican lawmakers, and that’s a huge problem when those lawmakers DGAF about democrat reactions and break the law anyway.
This is the time to be raising the alarm and making noise (remember when libs were whining that 16 months before an election was ‘not the time’ to be protesting democrats?). I don’t care about the occasional good thing the dems do in opposition to fascism, I care about all the things they’re not doing. They’re still acting as if there will still be elections, even though they spent the last 2 years screaming that there won’t be any more if trump wins.
At some point they have to start behaving like they actually believe what they’ve been trying to convince the rest of us of.
So, ten Democrats in the House constitutes the WHOLE PARTY doing nothing?
And you still aren’t making any actual proposals for what they should be doing.
Because what you’re looking for is some kind of policy proposal or voting strategy to stop a fascist movement, and I’m telling you that we’re beyond that.
Democrats should be physically impeding the dismantling of our institutions - that means disrupting the normal proceedings of congress and the legislature in order to raise the alarm, or at the very least not punishing the members of the party who are, and not breaking the line to side with the republicans when it actually matters (Schumer is the fucking minority leader, not some random spoiler).
When the strategy of the minority leader of the senate is to cooperate with the republicans in tearing apart the government in the hopes that voters blame them for a dip in the stock market 2 years from now and vote them out, it tells their constituents that they don’t really believe we’re witnessing the end of democracy. One of the top 2028 presidential contenders welcomed a white nationalist onto his podcast to talk about the ‘real concerns’ with transgender participation in sports. The DNC chair is out in public soliciting donations from “the good billionaires” while the base is setting records rallying against oligarchy.
The democratic party would rather collaborate with the reactionaries in the conservative party than recon with the growing populism in their own base, and that’s the entire-fucking point.
Yes, when the entire party of over 150 fails to represent the people who elected them because of 10 traitors then that counts as a L for the whole party.
They need to stop letting Republicans into the Democratic party if they want cohesion.
That doesn’t even make sense. Those ten went with the majority. What was there for the one hundred forty to do?
So why have a democratic party if they are randomly going to break ranks to enable fascism.
Literally any time a bill comes along that will make regular people’s lives worse for the rich to benefit conveniently there’s always enough dem traitors to get it passed.
Because a party that is mostly against fascism is better than none that are at all? Which I should not to have to say.
The party that’s mostly against fascism still is a party that’s is not against fascism. It’s against it in optics only, when at critical juncture after juncture it makes the decisions that enable or even help the fascists. There were so many things these dumb fucks could have done. Some people even from the party itself were screaming the solutions. At this point the only hope I see is the Bernie/AOC program. The Democratic party, as currently formulated, governed and funded has demonstrated that it can’t resist fascism. You have to do anything in your power to elect enough socialist independent reps that vote with Bernie/AOC’s agenda and hold the balance of power. And organize unions. Otherwise the Democrats will win again by default, do nothing material of substance and pave the way for the next wave of fascism to sweep power.
Two thirds of Americans thought Kamala was too far left. The idea that we will see hundreds of socialists elected to Congress, which is more than have been elected to anything in this country, is ridiculous.
People support Bernie and AOC because they are willing to stand up and fight. Not because they’re socialists.
According to you, fascism has already won.
A Nazi sit down at a table with 10 others, and nobody leaves. How many Nazis are now sat at the table?
The Democrats should whip their members harder instead of giving members ‘outs’ that makes the party as whole look uncommitted - Pelosi managed to do it for years, even with those ‘pesky progressives’.
Use the billion dollars of DNC leverage and lean on them - just like Elon’s unlimited money has openly threatened to primary anyone “disloyal” on the right.
Your definition of sitting at the table is “being in the same building.”
I KNOW! Why don’t they hold up stupid little signs? That’ll help!
Still not saying what you want Democrats to do.
I’m not the person you were talking with, I’m someone random passing through the thread. I’m just so fucking sick of the republicans being the “make shit worse party” and the democrats being the “do nothing” party and never having fucking anything improve. I’m so fucking sick of voting for people who aren’t going to help people. I’m sick of nothing being done. And, what I’m REALLY REALLY FUCKING SICK OF IS PEOPLE DEFENDING THEM DOING NOTHING TO HELP. I’m not a fucking politician, I’m a regular dickwad on the internet like anyone else, I don’t know what fucking specific actions they should be taking, I don’t know how to improve things, THAT’S WHAT WE FUCKING HAVE ELECTED REPRESENTATIVES FOR.
What makes it fucking worse. I donated to bernie in 2016. Since then, my contact info has been spread like an STD and I get all these fucking fundraising emails, texts, and calls, from these fucking democrat assholes. “Give me money so I can fix things :)” Like my FUCKING god we had a democrat president, and majority in the senate and house and still nothing was fucking done to improve things. For the love of GOD stop begging me for money so you can sit on your goddamn asses and do nothing.
I’m sorry, I didn’t mean to blow up at you, I hope you can understand my fucking frustration.
No, I can’t. Because you’re factually incorrect. They’re not “doing nothing.” They’re doing what they can as the minority in a majoritarian legislature - which isn’t a whole goddamned lot, but blaming them for not being able to effectively stop a majority is not exactly their fault.
And in the 117th Congress, they poured billions into the public coffers to deal with the economic devastation during COVID, they enshrined marriage equality into law, they expanded hate crime law. They tried for more, but undivided opposition from the Republicans, the clear political motivation of the Supreme Court and the unreliability of their slime majority hindered them. Blaming the whole of the Democratic Party is just not warranted.
I love how, in the same thread, you credit Republican opposition with stopping the Democratic agenda and then claim that Democrats are powerless to do the same.
Why are they powerless?
***Because they’re voting with Republicans and helping them steamroll us when they get a chance to withhold their votes and draw concessions or filibuster, which yes, is something they deserve full credit for doing as a party. ***
Because Republicans vote in lockstep but Democrats don’t. It was not some commentary on the ontological natures of the two parties, it’s just the reality of the two. Republican voters punish their politicians for not abasing themselves before Trump, Democratic voters reward candidates for breaking ranks.
I did, however.
How in the flying fuck are you defending this bullshit adherence to fascism? Please it is beyond pathetic.
Who needs enemy’s with friends like those 10…
Let me try it this way.
If those 10 can undo the actions of the rest, did they really do anything?
Exactly.
They are not powerless. They just have to fight dirty, which they should damn well be willing to do after watching the government get plundered for the last three months.
Yes, all of these.
But I don’t think they are unaware of these methods or unwilling to play dirty. I think that’s just a cover. I’m convinced they simply don’t want to do any of that because on the whole, their donors are either okay with the fascist agenda and/or believe they can get back in power by default because of Trump’s fuckups. Thereby going back to business as usual without promising any significant concessions to their voters. E.g. none of that Medicare for all shit. After two years of the fascists people would be happy to lap up anything that looks even remotely better. See how happy Booker’s performance made people. It’s something and people will take it over nothing.
Filibuster what, exactly? Trump is doing all of this damage with executive orders.
He’s making wild power grabs by EO because they’re not being challenged - outside some judges blocking the most egregious overreaches.
Congress has the lion’s share of the government power - the purse string - if they choose to use it. Nothing moves or happens without money in America.
It’s even worse than that. Democrats forced a 15-day vote against Trump’s emergency executive order. The Republicans in Congress redefined the entire congressional calendar as a single day, just to avoid holding the vote. Every last Republican in Congress is complicit.
Source? I can’t find anything linking the legislative schedule to a snap change, just dry press releases of ‘here’s the planned calendar’ and official announcements.
https://www.congress.gov/119/bills/hres211/BILLS-119hres211eh.pdf
On average, between 4,000 and 5,000 bills are considered in Congress every session.
Democrats should filibuster every one that makes it to the floor until Trump is out of office. Zero wins.
True, but Republicans haven’t brought a bill for a Senate vote this term as far as I’m aware. Have you seen a bill vote yet?
7 bills have passed the Senate, one has been signed into law: Congress.gov search
(note: the filter doesn’t include bills starting in the House, but there aren’t any relevant ones)
Also, the “Protection of Women and Girls in Sports Act of 2025” and “Born-Alive Abortion Survivors Protection Act” were “filibustered” (failed to reach cloture).
Nope, but I have seen the Democrats hand away their leverage and capitulate to fascists.
Hence point #1.
I would have liked them to push on how Trump and a bunch of other republicans are not eligible for office because of the insurrection. Go for blood. Refuse to acknowledge that that these people hold office.
They did. There were campaign ads with footage from Jan 6th. They repeatedly called Trump a traitor on the campaign trail.
You clearly didn’t watch any of it, so did you just presume they never brought it up.
Not “supported” in the past tense. What should they be doing now?
Calling him a traitor on the campaign trail isn’t the same as actually enforcing the law, at gunpoint if need be. Laws don’t matter if they’re not enforced. They should be physically removing the republicans from office.
The Supreme Court said they couldn’t.
Let them enforce their decision, then.
Look, I don’t really want a civil war or constitutional crisis, but under no circumstances should we have let the republicans proceed as they have.
But we did.
Now. What. Do. You. Want?
I have asked this question at least five times in under an hour and I have not gotten one answer.
I want republicans dead. That’s not really practical but that’s what I want. Every republican up against the wall. The big players can get a guillotine.
More practically? Probably impeachment proceedings, noncompliance, fillibuster, malicious compliance, push hard to the left and sell people on a future that’s not climate collapse and wage slavery.
Dems already did all of those things, and then they lost the election because Leftists are morons.