Sorry, no, I do not see it that way. While Israel has slowly settled additional territory, things have been relatively peaceful there for the last decade or so. There is no excuse for terrorism.
2023, in September, there was an article from AP News revealing that 2023 was the deadliest year for Palestinian children to be the last twenty years. The causes of death? The IDF. Exclusively.
10/7 happened because Israel has been causing escalating violence for the last 20 years after 60 years of mild to extreme violence.
The IDF just murdered your family, razed your house, and torched your crops. You are now homeless and alone, you can’t travel and you’re broke. What is your next course of action?
I’m not a “Israel deserved Oct 7th” person because I think that lends itself to the idea that the victims of the atrocities committed on Oct 7 deserved it. I don’t think they did. I do think Israel as a nation brought it upon themselves in the sense that they have been oppressing the Palestinians for however many years, and if they hadn’t been, the event wouldn’t have happened.
Norman Finkelstein put it in a pretty interesting way – atrocities were committed on Oct 7, but he would not condemn a violent outburst by people who were born in a concentration camp. He urged leniency and grace that would normally be afforded to people who were born into such conditions and who proceeded to commit unspeakable acts.
The way I see it Israel deserved the hell out of Oct 7th for like 50 years of slow motion genocide. Israelis did not though. Institution vs the innocent civillians caught in the crossfire.
See, I find myself agreeing, but am having trouble meshing those two, especially in what’s been touted as “the middle east’s only functional democracy”
How does a institution of, by, and for the people not count as a distillation of popular will?
I supposed in a liberal democracy that would be the case, but in reality the US and British governments rarely represent more than 1/3 of the population at best; with those being ‘good’ examples of democracy and Netanyahu being investigated for corruption the share of population actually represented by his administration is likely even lower.
I’m not the original person asked, just expressing my opinion.
I can’t definitively say what I would do, because I was born into privilege. I can try to imagine, though, if I was broken in such a way, I would likely seek revenge. That doesn’t invalidate anything I said in my previous comment. I believe Hamas committed atrocities on Oct 7. I would be hesitant to condemn them due to the conditions those atrocities were borne out of. If my family was murdered, my home destroyed, my people oppressed, etc. I’m sure I would feel justified in an act of revenge.
But killing or abducting an Israeli child, who for all I know could grow up being an advocate for my people, would not be justice. Do you think it would be? And how many Israeli children would need to die in order to to account for the endless sins of their forebears?
Everyone has already explained the contradiction in this statement, so let me just point out that what you call “peace” isn’t peace. It’s successful oppression where you simply don’t need to hear about the plight of the oppressed. Gazans were still being bombed, starve and intentionally kept on the brink of economic collapse (by Israel’s own words). West Bank people were still having their lands and homes razed and stolen and their family killed. East Jerusalem citizens (or should I say residents) were still being evicted for not paying rent on their own land. Smotrich still considered his life’s mission to be preventing the formation a Palestinian state. The most powerful man in Israel was still the same man who had crumpled peace and threw it in the trash 30 years ago. And Israelis were cheering on all this shit.
I repeat: That was not peace. That was Israel successfully hiding the oppression from Western eyes (that weren’t paying attention). Do you blame Nelson Mandela for breaking the “peace” black Africans had with the Apartheid government? What about the Irish in the Troubles?
As I see it, Hamas’s biggest victory as a resistance organization in the last 20 years was forcing Israel to be very loud about their genocidal tendencies. No quiet oppression and ethnic cleansing like what they get away with in thr West Bank. The culmination of this was October 7th, which brought Israeli oppression to the forefront of international discourse. Now whether it’s worth it is another story, but the decline in Israeli popular support in the West over the last 20 years is almost completely Hamas’s doing, along with everyone who then reported on it. Breaking the “peace” is the only way Palestinians will ever be free.
“pacified” isn’t “peaceful”. They control the actual water, power and access into and out of Palestine. There’s nothing above-board that isn’t within their power to cut off at a whim.
That’s absolute power over a group they hate. You learned what absolute power does, right? You know what hate does?
The media’s acceptance of anything bibi has done since coming into power has caused a lot of shady shit to be ignored. Really bad stuff.
I don’t condone violence but I know I’m not the jurist to pass judgement over 10/7 or a hundred things before it. I have food, water, and a safe bed, and I have no frame of reference to understand the context under which a people treated like starving dogs for 3 generations have risen up to bite their unwanted master.
But I can opine on a people who condemn guerilla warfare on one hand and commit actual terrorism with the other.
Sorry, no, I do not see it that way. While Israel has slowly settled additional territory, things have been relatively peaceful there for the last decade or so. There is no excuse for terrorism.
2023, in September, there was an article from AP News revealing that 2023 was the deadliest year for Palestinian children to be the last twenty years. The causes of death? The IDF. Exclusively. 10/7 happened because Israel has been causing escalating violence for the last 20 years after 60 years of mild to extreme violence.
I can’t reconcile
with
The IDF is stealing land, making people homeless, burning crops, murdering Palestinians, and so on.
What is an appropriate response in your view?
I understand the sentiment, but does that really justify killing innocent civilians at a music event?
The IDF just murdered your family, razed your house, and torched your crops. You are now homeless and alone, you can’t travel and you’re broke. What is your next course of action?
I’m not a “Israel deserved Oct 7th” person because I think that lends itself to the idea that the victims of the atrocities committed on Oct 7 deserved it. I don’t think they did. I do think Israel as a nation brought it upon themselves in the sense that they have been oppressing the Palestinians for however many years, and if they hadn’t been, the event wouldn’t have happened.
Norman Finkelstein put it in a pretty interesting way – atrocities were committed on Oct 7, but he would not condemn a violent outburst by people who were born in a concentration camp. He urged leniency and grace that would normally be afforded to people who were born into such conditions and who proceeded to commit unspeakable acts.
This response sums up my feelings as well.
The way I see it Israel deserved the hell out of Oct 7th for like 50 years of slow motion genocide. Israelis did not though. Institution vs the innocent civillians caught in the crossfire.
See, I find myself agreeing, but am having trouble meshing those two, especially in what’s been touted as “the middle east’s only functional democracy”
How does a institution of, by, and for the people not count as a distillation of popular will?
I supposed in a liberal democracy that would be the case, but in reality the US and British governments rarely represent more than 1/3 of the population at best; with those being ‘good’ examples of democracy and Netanyahu being investigated for corruption the share of population actually represented by his administration is likely even lower.
Answer the question
I’m not the original person asked, just expressing my opinion.
I can’t definitively say what I would do, because I was born into privilege. I can try to imagine, though, if I was broken in such a way, I would likely seek revenge. That doesn’t invalidate anything I said in my previous comment. I believe Hamas committed atrocities on Oct 7. I would be hesitant to condemn them due to the conditions those atrocities were borne out of. If my family was murdered, my home destroyed, my people oppressed, etc. I’m sure I would feel justified in an act of revenge.
But killing or abducting an Israeli child, who for all I know could grow up being an advocate for my people, would not be justice. Do you think it would be? And how many Israeli children would need to die in order to to account for the endless sins of their forebears?
Did anyone force anyone to attend a music event within sight of the world’s largest open-air prison?
Everyone has already explained the contradiction in this statement, so let me just point out that what you call “peace” isn’t peace. It’s successful oppression where you simply don’t need to hear about the plight of the oppressed. Gazans were still being bombed, starve and intentionally kept on the brink of economic collapse (by Israel’s own words). West Bank people were still having their lands and homes razed and stolen and their family killed. East Jerusalem citizens (or should I say residents) were still being evicted for not paying rent on their own land. Smotrich still considered his life’s mission to be preventing the formation a Palestinian state. The most powerful man in Israel was still the same man who had crumpled peace and threw it in the trash 30 years ago. And Israelis were cheering on all this shit.
I repeat: That was not peace. That was Israel successfully hiding the oppression from Western eyes (that weren’t paying attention). Do you blame Nelson Mandela for breaking the “peace” black Africans had with the Apartheid government? What about the Irish in the Troubles?
As I see it, Hamas’s biggest victory as a resistance organization in the last 20 years was forcing Israel to be very loud about their genocidal tendencies. No quiet oppression and ethnic cleansing like what they get away with in thr West Bank. The culmination of this was October 7th, which brought Israeli oppression to the forefront of international discourse. Now whether it’s worth it is another story, but the decline in Israeli popular support in the West over the last 20 years is almost completely Hamas’s doing, along with everyone who then reported on it. Breaking the “peace” is the only way Palestinians will ever be free.
“pacified” isn’t “peaceful”. They control the actual water, power and access into and out of Palestine. There’s nothing above-board that isn’t within their power to cut off at a whim.
That’s absolute power over a group they hate. You learned what absolute power does, right? You know what hate does?
The media’s acceptance of anything bibi has done since coming into power has caused a lot of shady shit to be ignored. Really bad stuff.
I don’t condone violence but I know I’m not the jurist to pass judgement over 10/7 or a hundred things before it. I have food, water, and a safe bed, and I have no frame of reference to understand the context under which a people treated like starving dogs for 3 generations have risen up to bite their unwanted master.
But I can opine on a people who condemn guerilla warfare on one hand and commit actual terrorism with the other.
Ahhh, yes. So you prefer quiet suffering to loud suffering so you can more easily ignore it. Me too, bro. Me too.
Oh, look. Liberals ignoring Israeli terrorism for the last 76 years as long as their precious “free press” can pretend it’s “relatively peaceful.”
Hamas did nothing wrong. Period.