That’s the thing - this is only barely not normal. It’s definitely more in your face, and a lot tackier, but the US has never been great, at least not for anyone straight, white, male, and relatively well off. Our history started with theft and genocide and continued on in that vein. While there have obviously been improvements over the last few hundred years, large portions of the population have had to be dragged kicking and screaming toward every bit of it. Even most of our best presidents have been responsible for atrocities, and then the pendulum always seems to swing back toward the worst of us for a while.
Now we have a population that has been systematically under- or uneducated and fed a steady diet of propaganda about how incredible this country is without any critical thought, and they blame anyone not just like them for any of their problems instead of ever paying attention to the wealthy ransacking the place. The vast majority of them cannot be reasoned with, because Republicans have spent decades making sure they don’t have the skills or desire to look at new evidence and change their minds.
It’s hard to come to terms with the fact that at least a third of my fellow Americans don’t think I should exist as a queer person, and another third don’t give enough of a fuck to bother taking any kind of stand. It’s hard to watch every institution we’ve been assured would provide some kind of checks and balances fail as soon as someone decides they’re no longer going to abide by any norms. Any meaningful action is likely to end up in a lot of death and if I thought this was a bizarre one off instead of something way too many people are rooting for, it would be a lot easier to think that sacrifice was worth it. It feels pretty hopeless at this point. My only real motivation is trying to use the little bit of privilege I have to try to help my community, but I know it’s not enough.
It’s just really hard to comprehend for me. See, we get a new cancelor who is right wing, but would still be considered mild, maybe even Dem in US terms. And even I am active every single day. Especially before the elections. There is protests everywhere. Just a day ago a nazi leader decided to step down because of the huge counter protests.
And you sit there, literally watching picture perfect facism rise, and be like: “Ayo, watcha gonna do about it?!”
You are the forefront of the literal world to deny “Hitler but with a massive arsenal of mass destruction armory,” but you resignate. It’s insane.
There are massive protests all over the US. AOC/Bernie drawing huge crowds. Republicans chanting “tax the rich”.
Corporate media won’t give it the coverage it deserves, and mainstream social media will bury it with their algorithms. Because they’re all owned by the billionaires bowing to Trump.
They want you to feel like nobody’s doing anything. Remember that.
I regularly read about those huge crowds but anytime I check, it’s never more than 30.000 people. My country has less than a third of the US population and there were over a million protestors on the streets in one weekend because the center right voted with the far right on the same bill. There were over 80.000 people just in my city alone and our situation is not even remotely comparable to the things that have been happening in the USA.
I’m not trying to shit on anyone going out there to do something, but considering the circumstances it should be so much more. This is not an issue of the media not reporting enough. There were no huge reports ahead of the demonstrations in my country either. It just happened through social media and networking. After all that happened Americans are still not fed up enough. And if it doesn’t happen now, I’m not sure it ever will.
Protests in the US are hamstrung by the total lack of a social safety net (most people can’t afford even a single day off work), and the massive land area of the country. You might only hear about protests getting to 30k, but that’s in one spot. One state in the US is larger by area, and has less options for transportation than a country in Europe, while often being much more sparsely populated.
People here say “Land doesn’t vote,” to talk about our electoral map, but geography actually does have a major impact on our politics. It’s the same reason our right wing likes closing polling locations. They use time and distance to gatekeep political participation
I don’t really agree with this take. The protests in cities are not limited by geography. The US has 9 cities with more than a million inhabitants, most of them voting blue. The lack of a social safety net is not a real argument either, as protests usually happen on the weekends and from the afternoon to the evening. If we compare the numbers just for cities alone: My hometown has a population of 1.8 million. About 5% of that population attended the local protest. If we compare this to a city like New York, which has 8.2 million inhabitants (and public transportation), 410,000 people should be out on the streets. Again, our situation is not even remotely as bad, so the numbers should be even higher in the USA.
I obviously can’t speak for the exact reasons why the numbers are so low, I just know that it doesn’t just boil down to reporting, geography or ability. You could pull these numbers easily, if the will to do it were there.
I don’t disagree with you but I’d like to point out that many of the most marginalized people here are forced to work on the weekend, in the afternoon and evening, in order to serve the more privileged who get weekends off work.
Hmmm are there? massive? I mean I know we all use that word lightly but “massive” they are not
AOC/Bernie drawing huge crowds
Yes, Americans love rallies… that is not a protest
Corporate media won’t give it the coverage it deserves, and mainstream social media will bury it with their algorithms. Because they’re all owned by the billionaires bowing to Trump.
While I agree with this, we can see car crashes happening in China… there are plenty of uncensored outlets that at least half the people of Lemmy would know to get/repost, etc. I have been asking for evidence of these protests myself for the last few weeks and I have not seen anything more than a couple dozen people by the doors of a Gov building… not even big enough for Police to be around
They want you to feel like nobody’s doing anything. Remember that.
Agreed… and the people of the USA are making that exceedingly easy by doing barely anything
Hmmm are there? massive? I mean I know we all use that word lightly but “massive” they are not
34,000 people for Sanders in Denver. Tell me with a straight face that this is a small number of people. “But relatively speaking-” hush. Big number is big.
…but yeah, pretty small compared to the number of people at, say, the Women’s March in 2017. I guess a lot of people learned a thing or two about what peaceful demonstrations can meaningfully accomplish against a police state. Still, nothing to sneeze at.
Yes, Americans love rallies… that is not a protest
Absolutely valid point here. The thing is, both Sanders and AOC have built their entire political careers on grassroots organizing, which is happening quietly alongside all the big speeches. Cory Doctorow has a good overview of this.
Sure, I’d much prefer to see spontaneous uprisings, but we’ve been in this hell for nearly a decade at this point. People are fucking burnt out. If AOC/Sanders is what it takes to bring in fresh blood, then so be it.
have been asking for evidence of these protests myself for the last few weeks and I have not seen anything more than a couple dozen people by the doors of a Gov building… not even big enough for Police to be around
Consider that sharing footage of a protest can put attendees in danger. Lots of emboldened brownshirt types would love to rat you out to the cops or your boss. Lemmy users are probably aware of this, which might be why you the only pics you see are from corporate media - those are already out there and a little traffic on Lemmy won’t make it much worse. See my original point about corporate media not covering the protests.
On that note: the people who showed up in 2017 and 2020 probably learnt this too. Maybe they’re now taking part in less visible/public actions that would be too dangerous to share indiscriminately? Who knows.
34,000 people for Sanders in Denver. Tell me with a straight face that this is a small number of people
No, I agree with you this is a large number (not huge considering the population of the USA but it’s a good amount)… the problem is that they went to a rally… I mean, it might as well be a concert. This is NOT a protest! If 30K people show up in DC or march somewhere, I would agree with you but they are just attending a rally
You need to account for the fact that it is simply not feasible for large percentages of the country to congregate into one place the way it is in most of Europe. There’s the size disparity, lack of affordable and accessible public transport around the country e.g trains (they do exist but very sparingly), and just the significantly fewer worker rights and wages that would allow people to do those things without completely upending their entire families wellbeing, which is part of the point from the enemy yes, but that’s because it’s effective.
and just the significantly fewer worker rights and wages that would allow people to do those things without completely upending their entire families wellbeing, which is part of the point from the enemy yes, but that’s because it’s effective.
And this is what happens when The People continue to wait until the bad news are choking them personally before doing something about it… the combination of “fuck you, got mine” and apathy took you here and I am sorry to tell you there is no way out by being extra quiet
What makes you think I’m being quiet? I’ve attended multiple protests in the past month alone. Surely you know that just because something isn’t in the news, doesn’t mean it didn’t exist?
you’re aware that the democrats have enabled nearly all of trump’s agenda and neither bernie nor aoc are advocating for the democratic leadership to change course, right?
I think the “with a massive arsenal” is a big part of the problem for a lot of people. I am absolutely certain Trump, and most of his administration, wouldn’t think twice about using that arsenal against Americans. He would love that shit, frankly, and the vast majority of Republicans would cheer it on. Shit, they’re threatening to send people to El Salvador for misdemeanors because it’s hurting Elon’s fee-fees. How do you get people motivated to fight what feels like a completely futile battle when the danger isn’t really hypothetical and the odds of success are far from guaranteed?
Plenty of countries in similar states don’t rise up for many years because it takes that long for desperation to kick in, or there’s an initial fight that’s brutally put down and then those that are left put their heads down and focus on survival. Our first civil war happened on relatively even ground. This one would be so one-sided that it’s not even funny.
I don’t say this to discourage people or suggest we shouldn’t at least try to make a difference. But it is the reality and it’s something I’m struggling with. I don’t know how willing I am to die for a country I’m only sometimes welcome in.
That’s the thing - this is only barely not normal. It’s definitely more in your face, and a lot tackier, but the US has never been great, at least not for anyone straight, white, male, and relatively well off. Our history started with theft and genocide and continued on in that vein. While there have obviously been improvements over the last few hundred years, large portions of the population have had to be dragged kicking and screaming toward every bit of it. Even most of our best presidents have been responsible for atrocities, and then the pendulum always seems to swing back toward the worst of us for a while.
Now we have a population that has been systematically under- or uneducated and fed a steady diet of propaganda about how incredible this country is without any critical thought, and they blame anyone not just like them for any of their problems instead of ever paying attention to the wealthy ransacking the place. The vast majority of them cannot be reasoned with, because Republicans have spent decades making sure they don’t have the skills or desire to look at new evidence and change their minds.
It’s hard to come to terms with the fact that at least a third of my fellow Americans don’t think I should exist as a queer person, and another third don’t give enough of a fuck to bother taking any kind of stand. It’s hard to watch every institution we’ve been assured would provide some kind of checks and balances fail as soon as someone decides they’re no longer going to abide by any norms. Any meaningful action is likely to end up in a lot of death and if I thought this was a bizarre one off instead of something way too many people are rooting for, it would be a lot easier to think that sacrifice was worth it. It feels pretty hopeless at this point. My only real motivation is trying to use the little bit of privilege I have to try to help my community, but I know it’s not enough.
It’s just really hard to comprehend for me. See, we get a new cancelor who is right wing, but would still be considered mild, maybe even Dem in US terms. And even I am active every single day. Especially before the elections. There is protests everywhere. Just a day ago a nazi leader decided to step down because of the huge counter protests.
And you sit there, literally watching picture perfect facism rise, and be like: “Ayo, watcha gonna do about it?!”
You are the forefront of the literal world to deny “Hitler but with a massive arsenal of mass destruction armory,” but you resignate. It’s insane.
There are massive protests all over the US. AOC/Bernie drawing huge crowds. Republicans chanting “tax the rich”.
Corporate media won’t give it the coverage it deserves, and mainstream social media will bury it with their algorithms. Because they’re all owned by the billionaires bowing to Trump.
They want you to feel like nobody’s doing anything. Remember that.
I regularly read about those huge crowds but anytime I check, it’s never more than 30.000 people. My country has less than a third of the US population and there were over a million protestors on the streets in one weekend because the center right voted with the far right on the same bill. There were over 80.000 people just in my city alone and our situation is not even remotely comparable to the things that have been happening in the USA.
I’m not trying to shit on anyone going out there to do something, but considering the circumstances it should be so much more. This is not an issue of the media not reporting enough. There were no huge reports ahead of the demonstrations in my country either. It just happened through social media and networking. After all that happened Americans are still not fed up enough. And if it doesn’t happen now, I’m not sure it ever will.
Protests in the US are hamstrung by the total lack of a social safety net (most people can’t afford even a single day off work), and the massive land area of the country. You might only hear about protests getting to 30k, but that’s in one spot. One state in the US is larger by area, and has less options for transportation than a country in Europe, while often being much more sparsely populated.
People here say “Land doesn’t vote,” to talk about our electoral map, but geography actually does have a major impact on our politics. It’s the same reason our right wing likes closing polling locations. They use time and distance to gatekeep political participation
I don’t really agree with this take. The protests in cities are not limited by geography. The US has 9 cities with more than a million inhabitants, most of them voting blue. The lack of a social safety net is not a real argument either, as protests usually happen on the weekends and from the afternoon to the evening. If we compare the numbers just for cities alone: My hometown has a population of 1.8 million. About 5% of that population attended the local protest. If we compare this to a city like New York, which has 8.2 million inhabitants (and public transportation), 410,000 people should be out on the streets. Again, our situation is not even remotely as bad, so the numbers should be even higher in the USA.
I obviously can’t speak for the exact reasons why the numbers are so low, I just know that it doesn’t just boil down to reporting, geography or ability. You could pull these numbers easily, if the will to do it were there.
I don’t disagree with you but I’d like to point out that many of the most marginalized people here are forced to work on the weekend, in the afternoon and evening, in order to serve the more privileged who get weekends off work.
Its only 30k? You realize 2k were at the J6 insurrection? You can do a lot with 30k people in the right place at the right time, and thats the issue.
Not really the best example IMO. The J6 insurrection was a riot and not a demonstration. And it failed even though it was backed by the President.
It was an insurrection not a riot and it helped paint Trump as a victim which lead to his reelection. I wouldnt dismiss it as a failure at all.
Hmmm are there? massive? I mean I know we all use that word lightly but “massive” they are not
Yes, Americans love rallies… that is not a protest
While I agree with this, we can see car crashes happening in China… there are plenty of uncensored outlets that at least half the people of Lemmy would know to get/repost, etc. I have been asking for evidence of these protests myself for the last few weeks and I have not seen anything more than a couple dozen people by the doors of a Gov building… not even big enough for Police to be around
Agreed… and the people of the USA are making that exceedingly easy by doing barely anything
34,000 people for Sanders in Denver. Tell me with a straight face that this is a small number of people. “But relatively speaking-” hush. Big number is big.
…but yeah, pretty small compared to the number of people at, say, the Women’s March in 2017. I guess a lot of people learned a thing or two about what peaceful demonstrations can meaningfully accomplish against a police state. Still, nothing to sneeze at.
Absolutely valid point here. The thing is, both Sanders and AOC have built their entire political careers on grassroots organizing, which is happening quietly alongside all the big speeches. Cory Doctorow has a good overview of this.
Sure, I’d much prefer to see spontaneous uprisings, but we’ve been in this hell for nearly a decade at this point. People are fucking burnt out. If AOC/Sanders is what it takes to bring in fresh blood, then so be it.
Consider that sharing footage of a protest can put attendees in danger. Lots of emboldened brownshirt types would love to rat you out to the cops or your boss. Lemmy users are probably aware of this, which might be why you the only pics you see are from corporate media - those are already out there and a little traffic on Lemmy won’t make it much worse. See my original point about corporate media not covering the protests.
On that note: the people who showed up in 2017 and 2020 probably learnt this too. Maybe they’re now taking part in less visible/public actions that would be too dangerous to share indiscriminately? Who knows.
No, I agree with you this is a large number (not huge considering the population of the USA but it’s a good amount)… the problem is that they went to a rally… I mean, it might as well be a concert. This is NOT a protest! If 30K people show up in DC or march somewhere, I would agree with you but they are just attending a rally
You need to account for the fact that it is simply not feasible for large percentages of the country to congregate into one place the way it is in most of Europe. There’s the size disparity, lack of affordable and accessible public transport around the country e.g trains (they do exist but very sparingly), and just the significantly fewer worker rights and wages that would allow people to do those things without completely upending their entire families wellbeing, which is part of the point from the enemy yes, but that’s because it’s effective.
And this is what happens when The People continue to wait until the bad news are choking them personally before doing something about it… the combination of “fuck you, got mine” and apathy took you here and I am sorry to tell you there is no way out by being extra quiet
What makes you think I’m being quiet? I’ve attended multiple protests in the past month alone. Surely you know that just because something isn’t in the news, doesn’t mean it didn’t exist?
you’re aware that the democrats have enabled nearly all of trump’s agenda and neither bernie nor aoc are advocating for the democratic leadership to change course, right?
I think the “with a massive arsenal” is a big part of the problem for a lot of people. I am absolutely certain Trump, and most of his administration, wouldn’t think twice about using that arsenal against Americans. He would love that shit, frankly, and the vast majority of Republicans would cheer it on. Shit, they’re threatening to send people to El Salvador for misdemeanors because it’s hurting Elon’s fee-fees. How do you get people motivated to fight what feels like a completely futile battle when the danger isn’t really hypothetical and the odds of success are far from guaranteed?
Plenty of countries in similar states don’t rise up for many years because it takes that long for desperation to kick in, or there’s an initial fight that’s brutally put down and then those that are left put their heads down and focus on survival. Our first civil war happened on relatively even ground. This one would be so one-sided that it’s not even funny.
I don’t say this to discourage people or suggest we shouldn’t at least try to make a difference. But it is the reality and it’s something I’m struggling with. I don’t know how willing I am to die for a country I’m only sometimes welcome in.