Damn, that sound pretty cool, thanks for the info!

Hey! Would you mind guiding me as to what is going on in this picture? Is this an APP that allowed to SSH into your server? You got my attention with this picture, and I’m curious to hear more.

As some who has no clue who Mike Beasley is, that seems like a perfectly legitimate Interpretation. A lot of people, like the one he is replying too, knowingly or not are defending the existing system and the existence of health insurances companies.

I mean, forget about health for a second: we all know insurance companies fucking suck, and they are essentially just a symptom of a shitty system. So why are we fighting/wishing/hoping for them to be run better/more empathetically instead of wanting a different system?

I think the his comment can be seen as a call-out of how some people are missing the root of the issue.

I’ll reply all in one comment:

make any excuse you want

Sorry you failed math, I guess?

all the evidence is to the contrary

production determines availability. there is no reason to assume we could produce more meat than we do, given land and technology constraints.

meat production happened before trade. there is no reason to assume it will ever end.

Where do you think meat is going? Why do you think it was being produced before trade, for fun? And do you not understand the basic concept that less =/= more, and that less emissions is better than more emissions?

It’s really not a hard concept to grasp, but go ahead and keep trying to hide your head in the sand and justify your consumerism while pretending to give a shit. I won’t bother wasting my time on someone who apparently can’t grasp basic math.

In 2021 Americans ate about 37.81kg of beef per capita per year in 2021, that’s about 0.73kg per week, or 1.6lbs.

Cheapest beef in Walmart that I can find, 1 pound for $5.93; so, for 1.6lbs, it comes out to $9.49 per week, for the cheapest Walmart beef. Keep in mind, 1.6lbs = 25.6 oz.

Beans (didn’t go for the cheapest): Can of black beans (15oz) for $1.42, another can of butter beans(16oz) for $1.54.

Lentils (not the cheapest): Iberia Lentils 12 oz for $2.59.

Mushrooms (16oz) for $4.34.

So a total of $9.89 for varied and healthy food, vs $9.49 for Walmart’s cheapest beef (which realistically would cost $11.86, because you can’t just buy 0.6lbs of that beef).

Yeah, because there’s more people in total. That doesn’t mean people going vegan doesn’t stop the growth of the meat industry.

Say 50% of people eat meat, and the other 50% are vegan. Then say the world population doubles. Now there will twice as many vegans, but there will also be twice as many meat eaters, and so meat production will double. But there’s still only half the meat production that there would be if 100% of people ate meat. And if you could get that value to 0% percent, there would be no meat industry.

Can you elaborate on this? Maybe give me some examples?

Because for the vast majority of people in western countries (which have by far the most emissions per capita), it is much cheaper to eat a plant based diet. Rice, beans, and lentils are much cheaper and much healthier than eating beef every day of the week.

How so? Meat factories exist to feed the people who buy meat. The more people go vegan, the less meat those factories produce, until they shut down. There is no “green version” for the meat industry, it just has to die, and the alternatives already exist and are cheaper. The power is all on people’s hands. The government won’t do anything about (not even cut the large meat industry subsidies) as long as people keep eating tons of meat, because they know that would mean protests and losing elections.

As you said, plenty of countries are better in terms of public transportation, but most people still insist on driving cars even in places with good public transportation coverage.

And the biggest counter to the “it’s not a personal issue, it’s companies who don’t give options” is diet: eating meat is far worse for the environment as well as more expensive than a plant based diet; but people hate the idea of eating less meat and they love to mock vegans.

Meat is one of the bigger polutters. Meat industry is subsidized by the state. Plant based diets are still cheaper. The vast majority of people still choose to eat meat and actively mock vegans. Just go look at beef (worse meat for the environment) consumption stats in the US.

That’s just one example.

People say they want change but won’t take it where they can, because deep down it’s a lie and they just want someone to fix the problem without them having to do anything.

I don’t do it, but I’d like to. The few times I tried it I quite enjoyed it, it’s just hard to find a place near me where I can practice archery. It’s quite fun, I think.

Cartoon violence inflicted on a rude person displayed in a comic strip has somehow started a war about “incels” and “toxic masculinity”; meanwhile, I’ve never watched Sesame Street and I was over here thinking Big Bird was a girl.

Mate, it’s about context, time, and place.

When the talk is about personal responsibility and some one comes in all mad that people aren’t currently criticizing the government and corporations, implying it’s not a “grown up conversation”, then that shifting blame and trying to skirt responsibility. You don’t have to convince me the government is bad because I already agree; it’s the other people in this thread who are having a fit at OP and being condescending because of the mention of personal responsibility.

Alright, I’m only going to address your first paragraph because … THAT’S LITERALLY WHAT IS BEING DONE. Like, wtf are you talking about?

Any time a post or comment says something about personal responsibility, in comes some one getting mad and complaining, trying to shift all the blame away, just like in the comment I replied to.

Meanwhile, the opposite never happens. I’ve never seen some who talks about personal responsibility who doesn’t also agree that governments and corporations are responsible.

Me and OP were not the ones to go into posts criticizing the government and corporations, and get mad and act condescendinly while saying that that it’s all about personal responsibility and you shouldn’t blame corpos and govs. I talk plenty of shit about them, I bet so does OP; the difference is that we don’t pretend like personal choices by everyday people doesn’t play into it.

As for the first part of your comment, I’m not fully sure that I understand. From the context of the conversation, it sounds like you disagree with me and are saying your plan is “food shortages will happen and civilization will begin to collapse, and that is how things will change”; and I’m not saying that won’t happen, but I am saying it would be morally reprehensible not to try and do something about it before it got to that point. If anything, the possibility of that happening is all the more reason to try and raise awareness to the problem before it gets that bad, so I’m not sure why you are disagreeing.

As for the rest, it sounds like you’re overanalyzing both what is just a simple metaphor, and what is a two strip comic panel. To overanalyze and counter your own analysis, the rise of the water is usually caused by heavy rains, which is what the “water droplet” part of the metaphor is referring to; and the comic strip is meant to be an oversimplified and funny way of saying we should raise awareness to the problem and convince them to take action - whatever action you prefer; it’s meant to be absurdist. It is not literally saying “you should tell your friends climate change exists”. And if your preferred solution is forming a guerrilla, then that is what the comic is telling you to talk to your friends about. You can’t form a guerrilla on your own; or, if you do, there’s no one to protect you or keep the fight going when you get taken to prison/killed.

And if for some weird reason your friends haven’t heard of climate change, then yes, that quite literally would be the start, unless you want your friends to think you’re a loon and call the cops on you.

But even then… its three droplets against hundreds of thousands moving in the other direction. And all the individual droplets know that.

Exactly, and that’s why you raise awareness by talking to people. If you get 3 friends and I get 3 friends, we now have 6 friends. And if each of those manages to get another 3 friends, then now we total 26 - that seems like a much better number to start a guerrilla with. And if you keep that chain going long enough, you’ll get enough droplets to change the current.

Sometimes when I have discussions like this with someone, I feel like we are standing in the rain and we both agree with need some kind of roof to shelter us. And then when I say “we should build some kind of support structure, maybe get some tools and materials” the other person turns hostile ^{(or politely disagrees, but 90% of the time they turn hostile)} and goes “No! What we need is to build a roof!”. Like I’m not even necessarily disagreeing with whatever your proposed solution is - a roof, voting, boycotts, blowing up pipelines, forming a guerrilla - I’m just saying that to get the solution you need a solid foundation.

If I’m so close, then help me cross the gap. Just in your other comment you said you wished “we could have grown up discussions”, and now that you have an opportunity to have one and educate people you instead chose to go with a childish condescending jab with no substance or value behind it. Almost like everything you say is just virtue signaling BS fluff so you can throw blame at other people and avoid having to make changes in your life.

Apart from the fact that “taking action” is still not a concrete plan and your comment is still void of any real substance, are you planning on taking whatever “action” alone? Are you going to be a one-man army? Because otherwise you need to raise awareness and bring people to your side.

By “action” do you mean voting? Are you going to do it alone?

By “action” do you mean blowing up a pipeline? Are you going to do it alone?

Who is electing your government? Who is feeding the corporations by buying their products? If you think your three friends not caring, and my three friends not caring, and OP’s three friends not caring is all inconsequential and there’s no point in changing their minds, then how do you envision change happening? That is a geniune question; do you actually have a plan of action, or is it just “the corporations and governments are the ones who have to do something”?

Like the saying goes, “no individual drop of rain sees themselves as responsible for the flood”, or something along those lines.

Governments and large industrial and commercial organisations are overwhelmingly more responsible for climate change than individuals like you and me

Right, but those governments and commercial organizations are supported by individuals like you and me; they do not exist in a vacuum. It doesn’t take a long conversation with an average person to realize they do not want to make the necessary changes to their life (either directly, or indirectly through significant change in the system) to fix the problem.

If most people were actually in favour of strong action to make significant change, then most democratic governments would be more in favour of more significant action as well, because at the end of the day most of them just want to be elected. But even in countries with a parliamentary system and multiple parties, greens barely have any power, and people keep choosing governments that either do nothing, or just the bare minimum.

For a small example of what I mean, just look how many people go out of their way to show up on vegan/vegetarian threads to talk about how much they love meat and won’t stop eating it - despite the fact it’s one of the largest contributors to climate change. And this is on Lemmy too, which is a lot more left leaning than the average social media platform, and even more than the real world. Then add in how many people are pro-car, especially gas, or how many people are addicted consumerists and can’t stop buying things they don’t need in plastic packaging; and for some more sprinkles you can also add all the “environmentalists” who campaign in favour of shutting down nuclear plants despite the fact that a) it’s the second safest energy source b) even with nuclear, by 2026 fossil fuels will still be responsible for over 50% of energy production.

If anyone wants to be a grown up and have a grown up discussion, then they need to stop shifting blame around and acting like governments exist in a vacuum and corporations aren’t selling anything.

If Coke decided to stop producing plastic bottles then Pepsi would up their production and their profits would skyrocket; if a government had the balls to issue laws about plastic reduction that would stop them from producing them, they would almost certainly lose the next election and there might be protests and riots; but if people just stopped buying soft drinks in plastic bottles, Coke and Pepsi would both stop producing them regardless of what the government does.

I would like to add David Graeber to that, and Kropotkin even. I don’t mean to start a snowball effect that turns this into a huge list, but I feel like not enough people (especially the average person) know about them; especially Graeber who is a lot more modern.